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“TimeOut is a Safe place where dominants and submissives (both m&f) can discuss ‘VT’ and ‘RT’ D/s topics.”
Mon 07:02:37 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . .
Hi Guys - going to give you FIVE MINUTES to settle in and get your hellos out of the way...so that when the Meeting actually starts.....we can be done with that..
*warm smile*
Mon 07:03:05 PM EDT Jul 31 pupknight{B} . . . *grins and just posts a greeting to all coming*
Mon 07:03:27 PM EDT Jul 31 Snow Leopard . . . The Snow Leopard steps through and with a breath of cool northern air, magically cleared the room of prior thoughts..
Mon 07:03:59 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *gives a general greeting.... hugs, kisses, smiles to A/all that want 'em... and settles next to pup for the meeting*
Mon 07:04:25 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . *walks in*
Mon 07:05:07 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . ~smiles at everyone, and peers at Snow Leopard curiously~
Mon 07:05:54 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Thank you for the magic, Snow Leopard. ~grins a bit~
Mon 07:06:16 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . .
~brilliant beam to Snow Leopard~ Welcome..
~Warm smile to all as they settle~ Welcome all
Mon 07:06:31 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . Greetings Snow Leopard...*S*
Nice to see that handle again...
Mon 07:07:07 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . looks around
Mon 07:09:09 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Hm, do we think this is it? ~curious look about~
Mon 07:09:56 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Might as well start, the time is on the banner. So stragglers will have to hold greets to reds and just join in the conversation. ~s`
Mon 07:10:58 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . .
One moment, please
Mon 07:11:13 PM EDT Jul 31 ella . . . sorry i'm late! *zips through and claims a corner.. twinkles a smile all round..*
Mon 07:13:39 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . *listens*
Mon 07:14:46 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *hopes Mistress Beauty comes*
*sends a thought to A/all that will read this later*
Mon 07:15:06 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . .
Okay...........we're starting........so please, no more public posts until I've opened the floor...
Mon 07:15:36 PM EDT Jul 31 Mistress Beauty . . . .. steps in briefly.. Please do not let my message interrupt you all! ;-) I a sorry that RT plans have interfered with my being here tonight, but I do look forward to participating in future Time Out meetings. I hope you all have a wonderful discussion! With all these good souls around how can you miss? :-)
Mon 07:16:38 PM EDT Jul 31 Mistress Beauty . . . Listen to heather{JT} and Alexandra ! They have things in hand... I must be off. Have terrific evening all!
Mon 07:17:41 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Enjoy your evening, Mistress Beauty! Though I'm sorry you can't stay. ~s~
Mon 07:17:47 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . ~lets the Mistress off the hook this time...lil'grin~
Mon 07:17:49 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . Till next time, Beauty...*S*
Mon 07:18:13 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . ~chuckles~
Mon 07:19:47 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . Have a good night Mistress Beauty
Mon 07:19:47 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . .
Okay..~ahem~
So, the Dungeon Master was supposed to open this discussion, but he's been stuck in traffic between two cities. He'll be in and join as soon as possible.
Until then...I'm going to be posting some thoughts we've had over the past few days. At the end, again, I'll open the floor for everyone to join in and I invited you all to really get in and offer your insights, ask questions, etc...
So here we go...*ss*
Mon 07:21:35 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Welcome and thanks for coming to our Monday night Time Out. Tonight, we’ll be focusing on safety in both v/t and r/t. No one is required to stay the entire time. We’ll try and get the transcript copied and posted somewhere, too.
Mon 07:22:18 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Tonight, we’re going to just refresh ourselves with the ideas of why safety is such an important part of this lifestyle, whether you’re practicing in real time, v/t, or both. Each carries its own risks and especially for anyone just beginning their exploration, safety must remain paramount. With younger and less experienced chatters in the castle the last couple of years, it remains the responsibility of the rest of us to do our due diligence in teaching safety, as well as introducing fun.
Lately, we’ve seen some chatters appearing turned off from the conversation when safety is brought up in a public discussion, as in “Well, we’re not actually doing it, so I don’t think safety’s that big of a concern at this point.” Wrong. Safety should always be a valid discussion point when discussing any type of play one or more of the chatters have no experience with. When it comes to safety, you cannot trust the old standby, “Well, they’re adults.” Yes, we’re all adults here, but even adults can sometime allow themselves to be swayed into behaviors that can become dangerous.
Mon 07:22:22 PM EDT Jul 31 silknsteele^ . . . Steps in to His left and settles...quietly as still at bank....
Mon 07:22:40 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . So, when we think of BDSM and safety, usually the first things we think of our safewords and trust. But, how do we trust someone for a single scene? How do we trust someone wielding a whip that can maim you for life? Trust is really one of those things that can work several ways. Some prefer to get to know their potential partners slowly, beginning with meets and conversations outside of official lifestyle venues and that allow ample exchange of ideas and experiences without the allure of immediate playtime.
This allows for each person to get to know their partner, what their likes and dislikes are, what they’re limitations are, their fears, their needs. After that introductory period, the pair begin to play, starting small and expanding their repertoire as trust builds.
Mon 07:23:27 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Others prefer finding someone via the local scene or through some online BDSM social media type website. In this case, people can arrange one off scenes, in a relatively safe environment, with specific parameters that neither party goes outside of, with the end goal being mutual satisfaction. The one scene play partner or occasional scene buddy found this way may come with the added bonus of a resume full of people who give their recommendation and back the top or bottom’s expertise in each area or their overall safety as a causal play partner. Just remember, if this is all done through a v/t site, verify Real Time contacts before playing, not just Joe B. that potential top John Dom has known for ten years via popular BDSM website. Same with potential bottom partners.
Question: How might you verify someone’s experiences?
(Through references. If a public lifestyler, you can do so by visiting their known play venues, talking to those who are familiar with his or her play style and history. The mere fact that a potential partner is fully willing for you to speak with past partners is a very good sign, indicating a willingness to be completely open about experience.)
Mon 07:23:49 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Another way you might ascertain if someone is telling the truth is if their story is too good to be true. (I.e. 25 years of experiences, has done it all, boastful about expertise, never admitting lack of training in a particular area. ) Those who say things like “If you were really a submissive…” should tell a bottom to run, not walk, the other way. Passive aggressive behavior outside of a one off scene should hold no weight in the community.
On the other hand a bottom who boasts, “No one can take pain like me, I’ve done it all, everyone wants to play with me because I’m the best, I really get off on pain, I’m a painslut extraordinaire!” should also send up a cautionary flag – While there exist a group of bottom oriented people who are, indeed, amazing natural-born masochists who truly get off on pain, we personally know of these situations happening in v/t where these claims were made and once in r/t, admissions to the contrary were quickly made. It can happen in r/t, as well.
Mon 07:23:59 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . In either of these scenarios, what it really comes down to is honesty. BDSM is a lifestyle that hinges on it. You can give your trust to anyone because they weave a good story or use all the right words, but unless honesty is behind those words, every person they play with is susceptible to danger, be it physical or mental – a mishandled implement that seriously injures, a misread que of a mental state.
Unfortunately, in either the v/t or r/t realm, the fact is there are those who react negatively to rejection, going so far as to threaten non-lifestyle partners, outing the other player, threatening employment, and at times – the player’s own safety. We’ve said it a thousand times, go slow, no matter how excited you might be – especially when it comes to giving out r/t info or arranging r/t meets.
Mon 07:24:27 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . If you intend to be a player in the lifestyle, whether as part of the overall scene or privately in your home, you need to think about all the ways in which injury can occur (some examples: https://www.evilmonk.org/a/medtext.cfm) and ways in which you should be safety aware beyond trusting your partner’s abilities.
Are you first aid certified? If not, you should be. You can always visit http://www.redcross.org/take-a-class/first-aid to find classes near you.
Mon 07:24:58 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Can you recognize the first signs of shock? ( http://www.mayoclinic.org/first-aid/first-aid-shock/basics/art-20056620 ) The link provided gives you all the signs to look for as well as the steps you need to take to take care of a person in shock until help is available. Other questions to consider, include:
Mon 07:25:27 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Even if nothing unexpected happens, are you prepared to care for someone after a heavy scene both emotionally and physically, as needed? If you aren’t willing to provide whatever aftercare is needed, it might be a good idea to really consider if this lifestyle is for you. A top needs to be focused on his or her partner above all else, including whatever they’re personally getting out of the exchange.
If you are a new player, while the lifestyle can seem extremely exciting and sexy, have you given enough consideration to your safety? Who else knows that you are exploring the lifestyle? Are you alerting those people when you go out to clubs, munches, meetings, play dates? The lifestyle is full of stories of well-meaning players being abused an even killed because they did not have a good enough safety net in place.
Mon 07:25:49 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Unfortunately, sometimes the most skillful predators will give no advanced warning signs, knowing all the right words, and sometimes, especially in the case of v/t, all the right people, to lull you into a false sense of security. Keep vigilant, always. A handsome face or a great body does not equate with trustworthy or safe. John Dom who has twenty years’ experience could mean twenty years of v/t experience and you’re the first partner he’s ever convinced to show up for real play.
In v/t, unless someone is well known to another chatter in real life settings, never trust a v/t recommendation about another v/t chatter if you’re looking to move into r/t play. Again, 10, 20, even 30 years of v/t BDSM chat play does not equal real life skill. If you cannot verify r/t that the person you are thinking of meeting from v/t has any experience and is a safe bet with your physical and mental well-being – think hard and long before you commit to meeting face-to-face and/or consider doing so in stages. Meet in a public space for coffee, never stay at the person’s home, choose a hotel. “Date” before you agree to do anything even remotely BDSM oriented outside of the p/e that can exchange verbally.
Mon 07:26:07 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Let’s make this crystal clear – There is NO amount of v/t experience that can take the place of in the flesh real time physical play. You will never know how a specific implement truly handles until you’ve held it. You’ll never know how it effects the skin until you’ve used it on flesh. And, as a bottom, you will never truly understand how a toy or even a hand feels on your skin until you’ve experienced it. Every person reacts to pain differently and it’s only through genuine experience that you can begin to really understand the intensity you seek as either a top or a bottom.
As a bottom, expect your scene partner to have verifiable proof of their prowess as a top and if they cannot produce even one legit recommendation, think strongly about walking away or agreeing to play only in a BDSM play space where your safety is more guaranteed.
Mon 07:26:27 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . As a top, same deal, your bottom may claim to be the world’s biggest painslut, but unless you can verify that through others in the lifestyle community, strongly rethink if the playdate is a good idea. Yes, you can always start slow and build up, but if your partner has over-exaggerated or outright lied about experience, is this a person you truly want to consider a p/e with?
And, yes, have and use your safeword when needed. If you can’t trust the person your with to recognize and honor the use of your safeword – walk away.
Mon 07:26:41 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . The floor is now open for discussion. Let’s start, since we’re in v/t here, what we know of safety practices in v/t versus r/t. How do we ensure mental stability in scene play with a mental/emotional focus? How do you proceed in moving from v/t to r/t – what do you recommend? How much of your real info do you give out, how quickly? How do you decide you trust someone? Do you have any stories to tell, good or bad?
Mon 07:34:11 PM EDT Jul 31 china . . . When i moved to real time, i had a sponser. We discussed my likes dislikes and what would be required of me at my first play party. I was made aware ahead of time the expectations and W/we agreed upon limits and safewords if i needed that out. It was understood that i was new and that if i grew overwhelmed there was also a safeword for a time out for me to discuss any things that might be upsetting or needing explainations. She came highly recommended and was able to provide references through the group. It was a safety net.
Mon 07:35:45 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . How did you find your sponsor, china? Is this the same one who ended up being jealous when you were naked and getting the attention of the room?
Mon 07:37:53 PM EDT Jul 31 china . . . I actually had to ask in writing at the time to be allowed to attend. People's livelihoods can be affected by the wrong person knowing what they do in their off time, so it is very hard to get into the playparties and at the time you had to ask in writing and you also had to sign a nondisclosure agreement regarding names and personalities. They assigned me the sponser simply because of location. She lived near me and it was convienent to speak with her due to the proximity. And yes she was the same One who had that issue.
Mon 07:38:24 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . ~reads, all very good information, nods, and listens~
Mon 07:39:05 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *listening, curious and interested*
Mon 07:39:15 PM EDT Jul 31 china . . . I do have to say that the membership was very good at makng sure that things were safe. They also contacted me afterwards to get my opinion of what i experienced. It was all under confidential settings and i was able to express my thoughts freely. It was a good learning experience.
Mon 07:39:24 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . so, you weren't able to actually verify her past behaviors or experiences with people? Given the poor behavior she showed in acting jealous over her bottom's attention - would you still recommend her to someone inexperienced..or even experienced...?
Mon 07:40:07 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . It doesn't have to be one person talking - everyone should feel comfortable jumping in ~warms smile~
Mon 07:40:40 PM EDT Jul 31 china . . . I do think something we forget is that we are human, we have feelings and emotions that are tied up in what we do. they had a doorman in charge of guests, and they had floating security if things got out of hand. It was addressed immediately regardless of Dominant or submissive and it was handled discretely and appropriately.
Mon 07:41:05 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . I think that is probably the case with most clubs and groups. Be suspicious if a venue or group does NOT ask you for references.
Mon 07:41:30 PM EDT Jul 31 china . . . Actually, her actions were noted by another sponser and while i was hesitant to speak out, She was removed from the sponser list due to Her actions.
Mon 07:42:24 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . I'll be honest..
I went across half a country to be with Daddy the first time... with no one in the world besides him ..in any way known to me.
I stayed with him in his home...
All things I would not recommend to newcomers.
I will say I did have knowledge of the several females He'd be with from the Castle before me - each one still living and healthy for the most part..~chuckles~
But, end of the day - don't be like me...!! I was lucky He wasn't a serial killer...lulling women into false security by letting the first few 'go'..and making me the 'victim'..
Mon 07:42:53 PM EDT Jul 31 pupknight{B} . . . well that certainly sounds like responsible and reassuring behaviour, despite how uncomfortable you must have felt given the situation, were you able to continue attending there?
Mon 07:43:28 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . how do you feel about group meet ups, heather? for example, i'd be hesitate to meet One from VT but if there were many of us together... i wouldn't think twice, especially if some have met up with others before.
Mon 07:43:45 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Ah, I'm actually glad to hear that, china....
Mon 07:45:25 PM EDT Jul 31 china . . . Smiles, i made some great friends there and yes I have an open invitation to return, circumstances prohibit that now but i still am in contact with several of T/those i met there. In this day and age of technology, however, i would caution that it is way too easy to find someone, i would be very cautious with personal information of any sort and i would be very careful to ensure safety
Mon 07:45:35 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . I would absolutely attend a group meet....with no play involved, chrissa.....I know we joke about how much 'fun' there would be. But, fact is most of us our strangers....we only know so much of each other and we only know truth as truth...because we're told so.....you know what I'm saying?
So, I'd absolutlely meet for a dinner...a weekend of meet ups..fun stuff....but I'd not play with anyone physically until I felt they were who they've said they are...
Mon 07:47:26 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *nods with a smile* makes sense, heather. i definitely liked the point about meeting in public, "dating" for a while, earning trust... before jumping into being bound and blindfolded with One that could seriously hurt or even kill you.
Mon 07:49:14 PM EDT Jul 31 pupknight{B} . . . i only managed to attend an rt group a few times, it was a sitdown at a public restaurant, very polite, lil awkward *chuckles* but very self, had safety calls and all that
Mon 07:49:50 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . So far, excellent recommendations of behavior...Trust a bit...Verify a lot...
Mon 07:50:05 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . If there's one thing I could impart from a talk about safety, it's that, chrissa..
I know when you're new to things, it's all very exciting and heady...but when we're talking of starting v/t and going r/t....safety MUST be put above anything else....
It never hurts to go slow..and in fact, it prolongs that excitement, the build up.. and makes the learning process all that more delicious...
and if you have a marriage outside of all this - even more reason to practice safety..physically and in regards to your 'real life' outside of BDSM.... if the two can't mix...
You can't beat the old adage, "it's better to be safe than sorry"...
Mon 07:51:10 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Excellent, pupknight....!... That's exactly how it should start if you want to do this as part of the "lifestyle"..with dungeons and clubs and private parties and groups...
Never hurts making friends before making partners...
Mon 07:52:37 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *hears heather and nods*
Mon 07:52:38 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Thank you, Reprobate..do you have any questions..any experiences in meeting people from online? (Doesn't have to be bdsm related so much as I know you're just kind of feeling it out now...) - but, anything related to safety or not being safe...
Mon 07:52:59 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . I could understand anyone's unwillingness to providing real information or even personal references for a first meeting... even someone you've known in VT... on both sides of the coin.
So saying, if someone is unwilling to provide that then be suspicious, can be a bit misleading, I think. But if they are willing to meet, with safecalls, in a public place... very public, and then even for a few times after that... and letting things develop slowly from there, I think is reasonable.
Mon 07:53:18 PM EDT Jul 31 ella . . . i think i'm a terrible example when it comes to this topic. i've played with more than one complete stranger and even when there is rapport beforehand, i can't remember any times where i have ever asked for references or any kind of verification- just did the instinct thing- as well as maintaining confidence in my own ability to get out of a bad situation of i needed to.
*twists my lips up* bad bad example.
Mon 07:54:29 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . settles in...reading
Mon 07:54:46 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . think recommendations are just as important for a Top/Dominant to get from a submissive partner?
Mon 07:54:52 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . I've had one vt to RT experience...kind of out of the blue as she flew in uninvited. She was definitely more experienced than I was; liked being tied up, breathplay, spanking...Other than phone conversations first, I had never met her...
Mon 07:55:38 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . .
Safety isn't just about the physical, either..we always need to keep our emotional and mental safety at the forefront as well....
That can include..falling for a married partner... is that safe to your overall mental and emotional well being?
Or..falling for a sadist if you are not a masochist... would you push yourself to extremes you have no desire for...just to be with someone?
I would hope you wouldn't.... it's important in all this that we be our truest selves....and I think we can get caught up in thinking we need to be the be all end all of sadist or masochist...to be seen as ..alluring..or wantable..etc...whih simply isn't true..
We're a rainbow..there's something for everyone...and we should never, ever put our emotional health in danger...and learning to recognize the signs of say...an unhealthy D/s relationship..might also be a worthy topic some night..all that goes with that..
Mon 07:56:10 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . And yes, ~nods to heather's post about BDSM safety practices~
I think it's important to include safety and possible risks in any discussion of BDSM practices.
While fantasy scening is acceptable in the BDSM rooms, I think safety should be part of discussions, as discussing tools and techniques imply more than scenes do, that there could/should/might be/etc. usage in rt.
Mon 07:56:14 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . Greetings, Darkson...
heather, yes...please read above. And I assure you it is 100% true...
Mon 07:57:37 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Oh, so you have had some experience! ~grins to Rep~ I thought you were a total greenhorn!
Mon 07:57:51 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . From past experience, I can tell you VT is a VERY powerful medium...It easily gets inside your head...It becomes very real very quickly...
Mon 07:58:01 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . you are lucky you weren't hurt or killed ella
Mon 07:58:42 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . I think you're very lucky, Reprobate...
that she wasn't a stalker or out to make a "Misery" case out of you..showing up unexpected..
If Daddy had ever just turned up at my door, I'd have called the cops...~sl~
Mon 07:58:45 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Certainly, chrissa. A submissive person can be predatory as much as a dominant one could be.
Who knows if the person you're meeting isn't someone who will try to expose you, or if things don't work out, be vindictive in that way... things like that.
Mon 07:59:26 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . Not completely, heather...just not well versed in being a proper Dom. If I had had more time to prepare and plan out the encounter, I might have scored a B. As it was, probably a C-
Mon 07:59:26 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Welcome, Daddy...! Glad you could join us...~smiles...slipping over to curl up beside you~
Mon 07:59:32 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . that's a good perspective, heather... do you suggest new people play casually - with verified and safe partners - before becoming exclusive with One? since the new person may not know exactly what they like/want/crave?
Mon 08:00:18 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . maybe i would have showed up dressed like a cop
Mon 08:00:35 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *hears Alexandra* ah that is true... how do you verify someone that is new to the lifestyle? without lifestyle recommendations?
Mon 08:00:39 PM EDT Jul 31 ella . . . *smiles to Darkson..*
Mon 08:01:02 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Like Alex said, chrissa ...absolutely..
Being submissive doesn't preclude someone from being manipulate, emotionally abusive, physically abusive..etc...
or just a full on psycho..
the lifestyle hides a LOT of people suffering from mental illness.....sociopaths..psychopaths...some who aren't looking to follow your limits and take their time...but to make a victim out of you..
Mon 08:01:21 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . As I said, it wasn't my plan heather and she never struck me as a complete psycho...just a very sweet girl looking for love which I am pleased to say she finally found...
Mon 08:01:32 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Preaching to the choir, Reprobate. ~grin~
Mon 08:01:48 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . I mean about the quick and deep effect of VT.
Mon 08:02:03 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *wrinkles nose* people suck...
Mon 08:03:25 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . 100% agreed heather....Way to many crazies out there who truly enjoy hurting people...badly...
Mon 08:03:46 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Just what I said before, chrissa. Public meetings, frequent safecalls, even if you hit it off and want to meet again... keeping it public, and slow... good for both sides.
Mon 08:03:50 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . I know a women who let a guy with references, tie her up...
in his house.....
the minute she was secure, he changed, she barely got out with her life....
the guy was arrested.........
Mon 08:03:59 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . *listens to the points about meeting for the first time*.....MY first rt submissive that I collared came from the opposite side of the world to meet Me in rt. she had contacts set up for different times that I knew nothing about......she had copies of all My ids , address ect......and all of this put in place at My insistence.....
Mon 08:04:45 PM EDT Jul 31 china . . . quietly, another thing to think about, If One is not able to give you aftercare due to time constraints etc. you need to be prepared to take care of yourself if necessary, an aftercare kit is much like a first aid kit, bandages, antiseptic, and some sort of rehydrating fluids, gatoraid, water, etc. The worst feeling in the world is to have Someone have to leave you and not provide aftercare. It does happen unfortunately and you must be ready to provide for your safety and well being if Someone else cannot.
Mon 08:04:54 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . .
I think that's up to the individual, chrissa. But, were my daughter to tell me she was interested? Yeah, I'd recommend approved play partners before going full on with one person.... just so she could grow a real sense of her self and her wants..and not immediately be shaped to just one persons style....
Mon 08:05:54 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . everyone who has met me, I have also forced RT calls, gave out my info, made sure the checked in....
i think that is key to look for
Mon 08:05:55 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Of course, we can't remove ALL risk from the equation, but we can do our best to minimize it. If something bad happens regardless of all precautions... then, it happens and it's unfortunate. It's how life works... randomly.
But the precautions just help to keep the odds on your favour.
Mon 08:07:11 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Yes, my mom and daughter had all of Daddy's info...~noddin'~ He was very open with it..
Mon 08:08:29 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . how do you protect emotional/mental wellbeing in vt? even if it stays in vt, we all know how easy it is to develop emotional attachments here.
Mon 08:08:33 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Good idea, china, that people should be prepared to care for their own self..and have a little kit ready to so...
Though, I do recommend that play times be set up with ample time for the appropriate needs taken care of after...
(not counting unplanned 'must leave' scenarios)
Mon 08:08:46 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . If someone is going to play with you to the degree a deep level of aftercare is needed, china, I hope they would be responsible enough to allow time for the aftercare.
If time ends up being an issue, then it was irresponsible.
You are correct, however, that you should come prepared, in case of emergency (e.g., the person you played with is called to attend to an injured child or parent or something like that)
Mon 08:09:35 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . It's hard, chrissa........ I can tell you I've been emotionally abused in v/t to such an extent I required hardcore therapy and medication for about a year....
Mon 08:10:25 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . Chrissa...I would say by ALWAYS remembering that it is vt and that there are bad people out there/....Not all but some and by being careful who you trust...are their stories plausible...are there contradictions...
Mon 08:10:43 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Getting to know a person, and letting them get to know you, chrissa. If you're going to play mental, or emotional with someone... you should know them well. Take your time. ~s~
Being hurt emotionally through emotional involvement is unavoidable. It will happen. It's happened to all of us, several times over.
But playing mental with someone requires knowledge, and the only way to get that knowledge is by spending the time.
Mon 08:11:00 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Alex can tell you I was...broken...by it...
The level of abuse I was subjected to was very nearly criminal and by someone everyone else 'here' thought was hot shit..
So, I'm more careful now about who I get to know beyond casual chit chat..and 'just in the room'....stuff...
I'm even more private about my real life..
Mon 08:11:20 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . also, this might be a stupid question... how do you do a background check? just the online ones that you pay for are ok?
Mon 08:12:01 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . *listens*
Mon 08:12:24 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *listens to all the advice...* all about keeping things safe and taking time... which to a new, eager person is the worst... *soft laugh* but also common sense.
Mon 08:12:40 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . ~nods to heather's post~
Mon 08:12:44 PM EDT Jul 31 pupknight{B} . . . how does one handle if a threat towards one's rt, even subtly, is made here
Mon 08:13:41 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Report it immediately, with the backup, to Admin, pupknight.
Mon 08:13:52 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . You have to learn, in v/t, to be a professional watcher - remember stories told, contradictions, changes...etc...
Mon 08:14:11 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . Try a few different services, chrissa...some are real crap...Others not bad...The top ones are manual and run $100 plus and use public records as well as dedicated crim record sources on a county basis.
Mon 08:14:22 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Copy the posts, pupknight and send them to the DM and to admin......
Mon 08:15:28 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . whew, that's pricey Reprobate *nods* but guess no price too high to be safe.
Mon 08:15:38 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . also, depends on what they know about you, pubknight...If they know RT stuff, consider the police...
Mon 08:15:53 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . I know it feels hard, chrissa..
but..those who've played with strangers in r/t....are fucking lucky...
they're lucky they were the friend of a friend of mine..who met a guy in a hotel and was found dead the next day...
they're fucking lucky it was a sexy, hot time..and that they're not burned, or scarred, or emotionally broken...
all it takes is one mistake.......just one..
Mon 08:16:09 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . were - weren't
Mon 08:17:17 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . yes those stories always sound extreme... "oh that can't be me" until it happens to someone in your circle. then it's real. *thoughtful*
Mon 08:18:24 PM EDT Jul 31 china . . . quietly, i had that happen after i had left here, Someone threatened me, luckily i had copied and pasted chats and saved them, He knew about me but i also knew about Him. and when He threatened me, i pulled out an address or two that was important to Him and suggested nicely that He stay in His world and i would stay in mine. He was not happy about it, but it worked. Probably not the smartest thing i could or should have done, but at the same time, i had learned enough to stop the threat to me.
Mon 08:18:31 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . .
Let's talk about why we're all so shy about calling out poor behavior here in the castle...
Why do we think that is?.....Why do we see repetive poor behavior and let it continue on to the next person...?
Why do we know who the players are...but continue to go towards them for attention?
Things like that...how could we do better..be better examples for each other? Because, frankly, that is not a monitor job.....the job is really ours as a community...
Mon 08:19:02 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . I lost a friend in RT...she and her boyfriend were shot cold dead...reason appears to have been a love triangle...details are otherwise scarce...
Mon 08:19:04 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . the only way I play with a stranger is in either a play party or a public venue in rt.....not just for the bottoms safety but for Mine as well.....
Mon 08:19:16 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . I've also been threatened here...I told him if ever contacted me again, I would be sending the police. Last I heard of him...another one who is quite liked..when he comes around..
Mon 08:19:30 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Well, there've been many horror stories in news about people meeting others from online and getting themselves killed or seriously injured... kidnapping.. etc.
But yes, it seems to have be close to home to be real.
Mon 08:19:44 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Absolutely, BLACKLION..that is the only way I could feel okay enough about it, too...
Mon 08:20:02 PM EDT Jul 31 pupknight{B} . . . i try to warn my fellow subs... often. usually goes unheeded
Mon 08:21:04 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Yes, it does usually go ignored after a lot of head nodding and 'you're right'ing'....~wry~
why is that..lack of people?
Mon 08:21:33 PM EDT Jul 31 ella . . . *hearing heather about the strangers..*
i think it's important to be able to find ways or techniques for people to handle safety in BDSM from any situation. No, playing with strangers is not smart. But people do- whether it be like this, or vanilla one night stands, or even the one one one tense conversation with the weird alleyway guy that you're suddenly alone on this street with.. whatever the case, it's good to have something behind you. Self defence abilities, a concealed weapon, whatever.
i'm not saying the way i do things is right, but even when you're going about something in the wrong way, you can create some advantages for yourself.
Mon 08:22:06 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . That is the best way to do it, heather...A threat is a threat...and cops like easy cases...
Mon 08:22:32 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . A good reason to send the info to Admin anyway, even if you could stave them off yourself, is so that they don't do the same thing to someone else.
Mon 08:23:52 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . I would say one reason Ones do not call the behavior out.....is that if can start a flame war and disrupt the Dungeon on a level that can get people removed or in trouble with castle staff
Mon 08:24:48 PM EDT Jul 31 ella . . . and about warning people here and calling others out- i've found that it really depends on the popularity of who's doing the calling.
i confronted someone in public a few weeks ago about something- tumbleweed. No support or questions or curiosity or anything. The same person was confronted more recently about the same stuff- and it's a bigger deal this time around.
There are probably a lot of influencing factors *little lift of shoulders*
Mon 08:25:04 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . i think some people here are vengeful and destructive... so would rather ignore and move on... than call out behavior.
honestly, i also feel like subs have to act differently here... if a Dom calls someone out its one thing... but a sub calling a Dom out? it's disrespectful and 'not submissive'...
just my thoughts
Mon 08:25:41 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . it's important to remember that a non membership handle, the castle has no info on that person
Mon 08:25:54 PM EDT Jul 31 silknsteele^ . . . Steps in to wat h and listen..unable to get to my laptop yet...settles to Masters right
Mon 08:26:02 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . There is that. ~nods to Blacklion~
Mon 08:26:06 PM EDT Jul 31 china . . . it can be done respectfully and thoughtfully, and as long as you maintain respect and *s* your temper, admin with back you if you are in the right
Mon 08:26:13 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . Ask...try asking for their facebook page...If very new, probably a Trojan horse...
Mon 08:26:27 PM EDT Jul 31 china . . . with-will
Mon 08:26:59 PM EDT Jul 31 silknsteele^ . . . Is a sub and will call a spade a spade...if it needs to be said...
Mon 08:27:17 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *chuckles* oh, i know you will silk *grins*
Mon 08:27:46 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . There's nothing wrong with a submissive calling out behavior, chrissa.......at all.......
Mon 08:28:20 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . You don't need respect to call out bad behavior.....
all you need to do is mind the rules...no flaming..no name calling...
Mon 08:29:02 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Submissives have called people out here before, and been supported especially as the behaviour being called out was obvious.
But then I've seen the same submissives go back to that person when they return after the dust has settled, either in the same name, or a new name.
so go figure.
It just perpetuates the behaviour because they know they can get away with it.
Mon 08:29:06 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *makes that note on her notepad*
Mon 08:29:39 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . yes you do silk....*S*
Mon 08:30:46 PM EDT Jul 31 silknsteele^ . . . It is not the who you are talking to...it is how you say it...
Mon 08:30:54 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . And that observation from Alexandra is why I repeat; VT is far more powerful a lure than most people realize...
Mon 08:31:00 PM EDT Jul 31 jenica . . . *slips in quietly, reads back and sends quiet greetings*
Mon 08:31:27 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . How does O/ones call out others behavior without getting into trouble themselfs
Mon 08:31:31 PM EDT Jul 31 silknsteele^ . . . Rests head on Masters thigh...
Mon 08:31:39 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . there is nothing wrong with calling out what you know of the person......
we are not going to stop that, as long as it is not unruly......
Mon 08:31:53 PM EDT Jul 31 pupknight{B} . . . i would agree Reprobate
Mon 08:31:56 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Sometimes you might get "warnings" from people who have had experience with a person, and is being vindictive. That could and does happen.
But even so, I wouldn't ignore it. Because... would that person even feel that way, if there wasn't at least a seed of something?
Mon 08:32:18 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Exactly....~nods to Alex~
Nothing changes even if you call someone out..but then three days later...it's back to "May I serve you?" "Hey, want to serve me?"...
When you let poor behavior go...it's just a sign to that person that they'll always eventually get away with it..and 'the dust will blow over'...
We WANT you to call out bad behavior....you don't need to start a flame war to do so....
If the person being called out gets rowdy - then - you call one of us to step in......
I've seen it so many times...people complain to us in red about someone..frothing with fury...and 3 days later..they're batting lashes...giggling...playing....
that doesn't help us..help you...
Mon 08:33:42 PM EDT Jul 31 pupknight{B} . . . once i dont trust Someone... i never serve them again. and generally try not to be alone with them either
Mon 08:33:49 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . very true.
Mon 08:34:58 PM EDT Jul 31 jenica . . . the problem is that the L/liars return with a new name and typically go after someone more new who doesn't know better or care...
Mon 08:35:49 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . The nature of the venue... purely mental and emotional... is what makes it so powerful. ~nods to Reprobate~
Mon 08:36:21 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Actually, chrissa..I've seen you handle some poor behavior very well..for someone new to this place..(though you're almost over your newbie period -winks-).... very well... with the right amount of firmness...
Mon 08:36:25 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *hears jenica* yes, that's true... or like heather's situation, that person was respected in the Castle...
Mon 08:36:26 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . they do, but if your vigilant....
consistency is what curbs behaviour in the direction you want.....
Mon 08:36:26 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . but Alexandra...heather...people always question motives of a warning...Perhaps better use of a 24 hour ban and putting the ban of that handle on the banner will serve as a good warning..
Mon 08:37:00 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . ~looks at jenica, smiles~ And what about when you find out who they really are, or they do use the same name... and still, it's back to flirting and playing as usual.
Mon 08:37:08 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . yes that is the a problem with name changes,,,,but if you watch before leaping you might see certain patterns in the way they act, speak ...etc that will always give them away
Mon 08:38:04 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . We don't make the rules, Reprobate..and Beauty would never allow such a thing...*ws*
Mon 08:38:11 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *tilts head to heather, smiling... but not quite sure what she's referencing...* not sure if i've called anyone out, per se.. but thank you...
Mon 08:38:26 PM EDT Jul 31 jenica . . . I know I'm jumping in here late so please excuse me
but the thing which has bugged me the most are the P/people who once were "F/friends" and return swearing T/they never knew me
how does someone do that?? do they not think we don't know their writing style, etc?
Mon 08:39:11 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . And you can tell if it's the same person jenica...Talk to the person BUT TAKE NOTES. No one is that good a liar to remember everything. You will catch the contradictions...
Mon 08:39:14 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Not specific "calling out" just general handling of uncomfortable situations, chrissa..things we discussed in other places...~s~
Mon 08:39:22 PM EDT Jul 31 china . . . so how do we make it safe for newcomers?
Mon 08:39:47 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . ah *nods, understanding*
Mon 08:39:49 PM EDT Jul 31 Laird Tartan . . . steppin' in a wee bit late, but here..
Mon 08:40:33 PM EDT Jul 31 jenica . . . Alexandra, it sounds like You might be saying I've overlooked the fact that T/they have a past which I knew about or might have been a victim to...and let it go?
well, I guess it depends on how much (if anything) was done to me personally ... or that I invested much in T/them to hold a grudge...
Mon 08:41:21 PM EDT Jul 31 Laird Tartan . . . lissenin' as I scroll back aboot safety measures an' standards..
Mon 08:41:30 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . Precisely, jenica...liars are easy to out...it's the experienced psychos that scare the crap out of me...
Mon 08:41:47 PM EDT Jul 31 jenica . . . Reprobabe, oh I don't need to take notes...many of U/us are whispering and comparing the impression that O/one is making!
Mon 08:43:05 PM EDT Jul 31 jenica . . . yes but Reprobate, it's all about my safety and guarding information I share...my RT stuff such as name, phone number, etc....the psychos have nothing on me if I am careful that way
Mon 08:43:09 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . We're not talking about grudges, jenica. ~s~ We're talking about safety.
And about letting the users know we know their game, and not giving in to it. That's the only way they will stop... or at least slow down.
If they think... oh well, I just have to give it a few months, all will be forgotten, and I can do my thing again. then it will never stop.
Mon 08:43:13 PM EDT Jul 31 ella . . . *soarks from jeni-doll's comment* i think if submissives worked more on their loyalty to each other rather than competing with each other, that would make a definite difference
Mon 08:43:30 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . Good jenica...teamwork....tangled web of deceipt!
Mon 08:43:47 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *hears ella* isn't that the truth...
Mon 08:44:48 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . .
Let's keep this topical to safety, guys..
Mon 08:44:48 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . one thing i learned pretty fast is to protect my RT information... because i gave it out like candy for a minute there... *shakes head*
Mon 08:44:56 PM EDT Jul 31 Laird Tartan . . . false loyalties are diff'cult tae find in one...til tha' hurt happens...
Mon 08:45:06 PM EDT Jul 31 ella . . . *hearing Alexandra..* i don't think it will ever stop.. no matter the measures we take, there is always going to be a hungry one in the dark that will take attention no matter who it is from, and that alone is always going to be enough for the Uglies to keep coming back
Mon 08:45:24 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . jenica...caution is the best way to proceed...avoid personal until you are sure the guy is not a loon...you can sift crap from wheat!
Mon 08:45:40 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Perhaps there are several discussions among these posts we can more fully expound on other nights.....
Mon 08:45:45 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Okay... so in keeping with the safety topic, I'll repost something I posted earlier, for thoughts and discussion.
Mon 07:56:10 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . And yes, ~nods to heather's post about BDSM safety practices~
I think it's important to include safety and possible risks in any discussion of BDSM practices.
While fantasy scening is acceptable in the BDSM rooms, I think safety should be part of discussions, as discussing tools and techniques imply more than scenes do, that there could/should/might be/etc. usage in rt.
Mon 08:45:48 PM EDT Jul 31 Laird Tartan . . . I agree...Monitors cannae be everywhar...
Mon 08:46:16 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . ~nods to ella~ Yes, but we can at least make an effort to minimize it.
Mon 08:46:18 PM EDT Jul 31 jenica . . . I agree that we do need to protect each other and we are often whispering with words of "be careful" and why...I think it's a tough line...especially as a submissive to call One out publically and not get called out for fighting...
Mon 08:48:22 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . Why is there not a Monitor button to summon any monitors logged on?
Mon 08:48:23 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . I think if we acted more like a community, we could help to protect each other
Mon 08:48:57 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . well..like we've all said, jen..if you call someone out..and you do it without flaming..breaking a rule......you're fine to do so...we'd rather have the community standing up for the community...
Our role as monitors really should only be to say hey..you're breaking a rule...but often..chatters leave the bulk of all 'room care' to us....often making us the easy target for 'they're so mean'..~chuckles~...
also...yeah..we're going to have a monitor discussion night..~writes that down~
Mon 08:49:13 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Citizens can just type "monitor" in the page name box and hit the page button, Reprobate.
Mon 08:49:21 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Citizens receive that button, Reprobate....
Mon 08:49:51 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . ohhh wait i didn't know about that monitor trick... *writes that down*
Mon 08:50:03 PM EDT Jul 31 ~IronDuke~ . . . is in...ponders...if hugging the Doms is permited
Mon 08:50:29 PM EDT Jul 31 pupknight{B} . . . i didnt know that either...
Mon 08:50:47 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Not in here, Iron Duke..... This is time out..no doms..no submissives.... all here for discussion..~warm smile~
Mon 08:51:15 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . It helps to put a note, or an example of whatever post is causing you to want a monitor, in the text box before hitting page. ~g~
Mon 08:51:19 PM EDT Jul 31 Laird Tartan . . . safety in numbers...an easy concept fer all
Mon 08:51:33 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . Cool, Alexandra...heather...had no idea...
Iron Duke...only in red...my subs get jealous...
Mon 08:52:02 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Yeah, works just like a page, chrissa - just type in Monitor...
Mon 08:52:14 PM EDT Jul 31 jenica . . . thanks heather, I appreciate your comments and it's true that W/we all need to come together and handle it factually but in the end look out for each other...*smiles*
Mon 08:53:02 PM EDT Jul 31 Laird Tartan . . . are Monitors here 24/7 ?
Mon 08:53:11 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . hears Alex*......there are things I do in the D that I would never try in RT because it is a fantasy ......so should One such as i ....be making statements saying such or should I talk about what is safe for RT and what is not
Mon 08:54:03 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Isn't it one of the things mentioned on getting our citizenship... or on the citizenship page? ~checks~
Mon 08:54:33 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . Yes BL, I think either before of after, a bit about what is fantasy, be laid out
Mon 08:54:36 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . No, Tartan. We have to sleep too. ~g~
Mon 08:55:15 PM EDT Jul 31 ~IronDuke~ . . . darn...no hugs....at least not in public...
Mon 08:55:34 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . but we can read back a long way......*grin*
Mon 08:55:51 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . No, Tartan..
we're just regular people...there aren't enough monitors to be here 24/7
...I've been called on my phone to come monitor before..!
We do our best..but we can't be here all the time...
I know at times our monitoring appears selective - it's not. If we aren't here - we don't see it...... and we do not monitor 'after the fact' unless it's something very detrimental..that can be verified by reading back..
Mon 08:55:54 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Sometimes it's pretty obvious it's fantasy, though, I think. Should there always be a disclaimer? Because it does say... fantasy is allowed.
I just think it's in discussions about BDSM that safety should be included when mentioning tools and techniques.
Mon 08:57:33 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . Darkson....for me I would more likely do it at the end for I do not always know which way the scene is going to turn....
Mon 08:58:19 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . I don't see how , as a responsible player, it hurts to simply put it out there.
Mon 08:59:40 PM EDT Jul 31 Laird Tartan . . . jus' a suggestion...mibbie update tha' Monitor handles..some o' those names are reallllllly outdated..
Mon 09:00:23 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . we can look at the takedown scene with BlackLion and silk. that was a fantasy takedown, and i actually thought it was good that people brought it up to discuss after. it means that people were thinking, processing it... i'd definitely suggest people bring things up respectfully, not an attack when a scene happens that isn't your cup of tea... but discussions on those things should be encouraged. either by the O/ones involved or by the community.
Mon 09:00:59 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Tartan, you'd need to right Admin with that suggestion - we're not capable of doing that. It really does help if admin hears from its chatters..~warm smile~
(and I agree!)
Mon 09:01:05 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . I'm the same BL.....in never planning the scene.....
like the other night with heather, I whipped her on the neck, I would never do that RT......
and i was remiss in calling that out then
Mon 09:01:14 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . I suggested that once, Darkson, but it came up that it could alter the 'mood' of the scene. ~g~
Mon 09:01:37 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . right - write..oi
Mon 09:01:51 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . We'll look into that, Tartan. Thanks for the reminder. ~s~
Mon 09:02:47 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Yes, probably at the end it would be less detracting. ~nods to Blacklion~
Mon 09:04:44 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . well it's not a rule Alex, for me tho, I think it adds to overall to know the Dom is in control .....and executing it well
Mon 09:05:07 PM EDT Jul 31 Deacon~ . . . Steps out
Mon 09:05:42 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . the end is tough tho, because those scenes require mental aftercare, that is important
Mon 09:06:12 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Good point, Darkson.
Now, what about discussions? Should safety always be mentioned in relation to discussing tools and techniques?
Mon 09:06:35 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *wondering* can we discuss what is safe to try alone in RT? maybe to understand the feel of an implement and whatnot...
Mon 09:06:49 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . I guess the thing to remember is not A/all have the rt experience to realize that not all scenes happen in rt.....
Mon 09:07:13 PM EDT Jul 31 ~IronDuke~ . . . smiles as I listen to Alexandras point.....I having Mine...
Mon 09:07:43 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Yes..if we're going to discuss toys and play - safety should be touched on.... it just makes sense...
Mon 09:07:53 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . My opinion to Alexandra's question: 100% yes...Shows at least one party is thinking it through with their brain rather than just their genitalia...
Mon 09:08:21 PM EDT Jul 31 ~IronDuke~ . . . waiting for others....to respond
Mon 09:08:31 PM EDT Jul 31 ella . . . So what about individual safety- outside of any dynamic or single exchange..? i was told once that self injury, even if it's skilled and experience, is a bad idea in the Dungeon. But I've seen Dominants in the past strike their own thighs with crops, etc.
Is there a rule specific to this?
Mon 09:08:41 PM EDT Jul 31 Laird Tartan . . . even Moil" play Reprobate? **chucklin'**
Mon 09:08:42 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . A quick one-liner about "this scene involved actions that should not be attempted in rt"... or something like that... should be okay.
Mon 09:09:07 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . you have a specific implement in mind, chrissa?
Mon 09:10:00 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . Found out it is spelled Moyle, Laird...*G*
Mon 09:10:42 PM EDT Jul 31 ella . . . *read Alexandra's one liner in the Law & Order intro voice for some reason.. grins*
Mon 09:10:58 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *soft laugh* not really... but if i want to try choking/breath play... blade play... that sort of thing... i'm going to assume those shouldn't be done alone, in case something happens...
don't think i can spank myself hard enough to cause severe pain or damage... *s*
Mon 09:11:25 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . I, personally, don't like a submissive I'm interacting with, to do certain things in rt that could cause damage I can't control.
Now, if a submissive has never been spanked, for example, and I want them to know how to relate to the physical sensations, I might have them use the back of a wooden spoon or something on their thigh or ass... but only so they can know and relate to the sensation for vt interaction
Mon 09:12:42 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . ella.......a good Dominant in my mind, knows what their toys feel like, they get intimate with them and know them so they can give the experience wanted....
a submissive hurting themselves, why??,you are in a Dungeon, there are people there who could facilitate that ...*s*
Mon 09:12:49 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *nods* that's what i am looking for, Alexandra... i want to understand sensations that i can feel here... but obviously nothing intense or unsafe.
Mon 09:12:50 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . As with anything, chrissa - caution is best...but I think you know your own body and most people ..just instinctively..tend to do 'less' to their own body than they would to another's.. I would not recommend anything with knives...or self-asphyxiation..things like that..
but a little bit of wax?..little bit of pain on the thighs?...etc..sure..why not... I've beat my own thighs with a crop before....(the shank end..not the slapper)...wicked fucking bruises....extremely painful after... you -can- go to far....so...always practice the 'less is more' rule if you're going to try things....
Don't do anything that would end with you at urgent care...
Mon 09:13:02 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . well, chrissa...you will definitely need a Top who you know well and absolutely trust...and oh ya...experienced RT in those two areas...
Mon 09:14:06 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Yes, pretty much the things you mentioned... no no for me with a submissive doing it in rt, with me not there.. doing it myself.
Also... whips, canes.
Small floggers, or even crops... light uses of a belt.. might be okay, with supervision.
Mon 09:14:07 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *nods, hearing heather confirm my thoughts*
Mon 09:14:31 PM EDT Jul 31 Laird Tartan . . . need tae leave fer nou'.. thenks fer sharin' yer thaughts everyone..
Mon 09:15:19 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . *listen*
Mon 09:15:45 PM EDT Jul 31 silknsteele^ . . . Slips out for bed....
Mon 09:16:00 PM EDT Jul 31 ~IronDuke~ . . . I am all for safety...however...
Is it really necessary to discuss every aspect....when the topic is quite broad....
I mean...and I will use the example ....of breast bondage...as it was a topic I raised....looking for different forms of play,
it briefly touched on every thing from , nipple clamps, to ...darn it cant recall them all....but included breast clamps or vices....
Do we need to have a safety caveat, for every item brought up in a broad ...introductory discussion....
I mean one could talk for five minutes just on nipple clamps
Mon 09:16:24 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . And to also keep in mind, chrissa, even if you do something like that to let yourself know the sensation in rt... keep in mind that the mental and emotional impact of someone else doing it to you... would be added to that.
Mon 09:16:32 PM EDT Jul 31 ella . . . Darkson, what you're saying is true.. but one has to take into account the urge for pain vs. the urge for any of the people present at the Dungeon at any given time.. it's tricky.
i just think.. it's a BDSM room and masochism is a central element of the theme- isn't it healthy to explore ways of experiencing that outside of a relationship too?
Mon 09:17:09 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . oh definitely, Alexandra... *nods* i was on the phone with One while doing some things... and even that component added to the experience much more than solely myself.
Mon 09:18:25 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . .
Yes, Iron Duke - we're in a room where these things can be seen and read about in v/t and taken to r/t.........there is absolutely no harm in making a disclaimer on safety..
especially consider the amount of new to the scene people we get coming in and out of the room..
Mon 09:19:00 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . I would definitely recommend it for the more risky things, Iron Duke, like breast presses and actual breast bondage, with rope and whatnot.
Mon 09:19:16 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . but time limits on using such things as clamps , bindings and such need to be learned for rt play as well because in vt a scene might take a hour but in rt it might not be safe to leave a clamp on more than ten minutes
Mon 09:19:50 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . No one said ..an in-depth safety class for each thing..~soft laugh~ a simple safety reminder..'do your research' etc...
also..these are not rules of the castle..we're talking here..all of us...as chatters....experience and not so experienced in BDSM...
Mon 09:20:21 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Exactly ~noddin' t'BLACKLION~
Mon 09:21:08 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . There are actually comparatively few actual masochists, ella. The BDSM world is not "teeming" with them. Especially online.
It's easy, and common, to love the idea of extreme pain. So it's even more of a risk for someone who is not really a masochist, to fantasize about being one because the idea is so appealing, and then going to trying some severe stuff and causing some real damage.
Mon 09:21:36 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . ella, it's frowned upon here, it is not something, submissives playing with themselves in any form......
Mon 09:22:18 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . what?
Mon 09:22:35 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . ~nods to Blacklion's post as well, and heather's~
Mon 09:22:37 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . ~nods hearin' Alex~ Exactly t'reason for so long I didn't want to add mascohist as one of my self-identifiers...I didn't want to feel like I was just hopping on the 'in thing'.....
but I've come to realize..I actually am one...
Mon 09:23:09 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . it does seem like masochism is prevalent here... *nods* or lots of scenes involving that type of play.
Mon 09:23:22 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . submissives playing with themselves in any form is not allowed in the BDSM rooms......here
Mon 09:23:49 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *writes that down too...*
Mon 09:24:15 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . The Mistress actually frowns on submissives playing with themselves (so awkward a phrase) in any fashion...like that...she prefers they be serving..cleaning..getting to know dominants..etc......if you're really itching for deep play...you could always approach a dominant...and inquire about a scene....*ws*
Mon 09:25:12 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . i think that should maybe be added to the rules... i can write admin if you'd like
Mon 09:25:20 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Well, I enjoy pain, but I'm no masochist... far from it. I only enjoy specific types under specific conditions. ~nods~
So "liking pain" is not sufficient to describe a masochist.
Mon 09:25:27 PM EDT Jul 31 china . . . sighing
Mon 09:26:13 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . why the sigh, china doll?
Mon 09:26:54 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . hearing Darkson...does that mean a sub topping another sub
Mon 09:27:10 PM EDT Jul 31 ella . . . *nodding gently to Darkson and Alexandra..*
that's interesting.. is that why it's frowned upon? Because people might be more likely to go and try something they see someone doing to themselves- thinking they don't need another, so have at it..?
It kind of makes it sound like our involvement here needs to carry a sense of responsibility for a lot of hypotheticals. i mean, people know they can pick up a knife and draw a bloody line on themselves if they wanted to. Masochism, however rare in its trueness, is a legitimate fraction of BDSM practices. So i'm curious about it being something frowned upon in its demonstration..
Mon 09:27:30 PM EDT Jul 31 china . . . recently i brought up the idea of being spanked in the Dungeon. While it sparked quite the interesting discussion it never happened. You say You dont want submissives playing with themselves, then maybe the Dominants need to step up.
Mon 09:27:39 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . As you know by now, chrissa, describing and "doing" extreme pain scenes in VT is a far cry from actually doing that in rt. ~g~
I love to play with extreme levels and types of pain in VT, purely for the emotional and mental rush. There are many extreme pain play scenes I've done here that would be a "no way" in rt for me.
Mon 09:28:39 PM EDT Jul 31 ella . . . So it's more something that is specific to Beauty's Castle rather than a general perspective of BDSM? that makes more sense..
Mon 09:28:42 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . hearing Alex.....I am the same way Alex....I enjoy certain types of pain.....but I am not a sub or a masochist
Mon 09:29:30 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . It's simply upholding a sense of responsibility, doing our part, so to speak, ella. We can control what people will actually do. But we can at least try to discourage people unnecessarily doing damage to themselves and other people if we include safety in our discussions.
Mon 09:29:33 PM EDT Jul 31 china . . . i apologize i don't think i worded that very well but the point was made.
Mon 09:29:39 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . yikes china... only reason that makes me cringe is because the same could be said for one of those creepy, awful Doms saying 'submissives' need to step up and let Them play with us... *shakes head* no thank you... consent is whats important...
Mon 09:30:16 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . and yes, i do see that, Alexandra *s*
Mon 09:30:21 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . can't control, that is
Mon 09:31:00 PM EDT Jul 31 ~IronDuke~ . . . submissives playing with themselves...hmmm...what happens in rt...often a sub will top another submissive...
Mon 09:31:16 PM EDT Jul 31 china . . . chrissa, when i first came back the submissives did not even serve the Dominants, they did not make the time or the effort to get up to provide refreshments for the Dominants, and while the type of serve preferred is debatable it has improved since then.
Mon 09:31:21 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . in any interaction in the Dungeon, there has to be a clear Top and bottom Blacklion.....
it does not matter how those players identify themselves outside the interaction.......
so two submissives play, one takes the Top role, great, anything else unless under the command of their Dominant, is frowned upon...
Mon 09:31:57 PM EDT Jul 31 Reprobate . . . Slips quietly from the room...Goodnight to all...
Mon 09:31:57 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . And spank you just because you say you want to be, china?
~chuckles~ Maybe the right dominants to do that weren't present at the time.
Mon 09:33:04 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . .
Actually, I'd like to see a lot more of the onus for how the room moves and plays out...fall into the dominants hands...
dominants...for a long while..seem to be afraid to 'be' dominant...'too much'..for fear of running off the submissives..
Wouldn't it be lovely to feel that nice back and forth tension every time we stepped into the room?
Though admittedly we've had some who confuse domineering and plain meanness for dominance...
Oh - reminder submissives - if you are uncollared..you are NOT beholden to serve a dominant in any regard, for a serve or a scene
and they are DEFINITELY not at liberty to touch you..
You are allowed to deny........ with courtesy..but deny all the same...
Mon 09:33:31 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *looks to china* well, suppose thats two different things to me... serving a drink vs offering myself for a scene.
Mon 09:33:39 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . thank You Darkson......I was just wanting to be clear before I let silk do a scene I was asked to let her do with another ...
Mon 09:34:14 PM EDT Jul 31 ella . . . i think it would be more progressive and productive if that avenue was looked at, Alexandra.. rather than it simply being something discouraged and frowned upon, we could actually look at the reality of there being real masochists out there curious and in need of effective advice and comfort when it comes to exploring the notion of pain, alone. If we do that, we could help and teach. Just a thought.
Mon 09:34:50 PM EDT Jul 31 china . . . so we get scolded when we dont offer to serve, we are supposed to communicate with the Dominants to what our needs are vs Their needs and at the same time we are to not express ourselves in that way. I was being honest and forthright about that want, need, whatever You wish to label it. so we are to be as children seen but not heard, obedient to a fault and god forbid that we admit that we have needs just as the Dominants do?
Mon 09:36:06 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . We could make that another TimeOut topic, if you like, ella. ~s~
How actual masochists might learn from vt and explore in rt.
Mon 09:36:26 PM EDT Jul 31 china . . . my apologies, going quiet and stepping out.
Mon 09:37:08 PM EDT Jul 31 ella . . . i'd be first in and best dressed for that one, Alexandra *smiles*
Mon 09:37:11 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . You can put out there what you need, china - but you are a submissive, right? You have to be okay with being forthright and then having nothing happen. You're there to submit - in whatever fashion that might take..and sometimes..that submission is to your own patience....
Mon 09:37:40 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . So are you saying, china, that you would have been willing to let any uppercase walking into the dungeon, to spank you?
Mon 09:38:17 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Tantrum thrown and noted.
Mon 09:39:19 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . *has another topic idea*
Mon 09:39:31 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . Who do we submit ideas to?
Mon 09:40:21 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . To the DM, Heather, or myself, chrissa. ~s~ Our emails can be use, or in discussion in the Dungeon.
Mon 09:40:33 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . admin@beautyscastle.com
Mon 09:40:41 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . it sounds like a lot of topics can come from tonight
Mon 09:41:49 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . perfect thank You! will email it to admin
Mon 09:42:27 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . From the Time Out Rules page:
Room Monitors..or..the "Folks who say What's What"(wg):
Alexandra
Darkson
Heather
Mistress Beauty*
Mon 09:43:33 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . I would like to see the topic of times of using things vt v rt
Mon 09:43:58 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Oh, there is a "Timeout rules" link at the top of the page, also. FYI. ~s~
Mon 09:44:06 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . just sent my topic. how to negotiate a scene or relationship/contract
Mon 09:45:34 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . Did not even know..........I was a Monitor here.....I need more pay
Mon 09:46:30 PM EDT Jul 31 Darkson . . . Thanks for everything folk , great chat.....
have a great night
*pulls thew curtain*
Mon 09:46:37 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . ~laughs~ Let me know when the cheques are being handed out.
Mon 09:46:40 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . I think another topic would be masochist vs ones that just like pain ever so often
Mon 09:46:55 PM EDT Jul 31 ella . . . thank you for the discussion, everyone.. *tips my face gratefully and finds my way out..*
Mon 09:47:21 PM EDT Jul 31 heather{JT} . . . Thanks for coming everyone - GREAT start to more discussions - thank you!! ~warm smile~
~tumbles ...with Daddy~
Mon 09:47:22 PM EDT Jul 31 chrissa . . . thank you all~ *slips out*
Mon 09:47:34 PM EDT Jul 31 BLACKLIONIII . . . thanks A/all for a great time out
Mon 09:48:25 PM EDT Jul 31 Alexandra . . . Thanks everyone, for attending, and contributing. ~s~
A transcript will be in the Archives by end of day tomorrow.
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