| •HOME | •CHAT | •FORUMS | •VILLAGE | •NEWS | •ARCHIVES | •JOIN | •T.O.S | •PRIVACY | •CONTACT | •HELP |
“TimeOut is a Safe place where dominants and submissives(both m&f) can discuss ‘VT’ and ‘RT’ D/s topics.”
Mon 10:01:05 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *entering the space*
Mon 10:02:47 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . *smiles as i settle in..* evening..
Just a couple of reminders before we get stuck in discussion... Time Out is open every Monday for everyone to take part.. even if it's just a passing drop of thoughts on whatever is being discussed or whatever you'd like to see discussed... this is a neutral space for us all to explore and learn and talk without judgement, that's the most important thing to remember.. and if anyone is interested in past Time Out discussions.. *points upwards to the link..* they're in the castle archives.. Time Out rules can be found up there too..
Mon 10:02:51 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . ~slips in and finds a seat way in the back, leans against the wall with my popcorn~
Mon 10:04:21 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . the topic we were interested in talking about tonight is 'responsibilities of a submissive/bottom'
Mon 10:04:24 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . ~trying on a different shade of purple for in here~
Mon 10:04:51 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *grinning as chally goes orchid*
Mon 10:05:33 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . would like lavender, but there is none
Mon 10:06:27 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . Before you start, I think when speaking of responsibilities in BDSM, all of it is equally important, dom/top, sub/bottom. May I ask why the focus on specifically sub/bottom?
Mon 10:06:40 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . i will go back to the purple as it's my favorite and His as well
Mon 10:07:15 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . ~silences and listens to Alexandra~
Mon 10:08:17 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . soooo...*jumping on in*...I have a few ideas on what some of the responsibilities of an s-type are...based on both My experiences as an s-type and also as a more recent D-type, but before I start pontificating on all that...I'm curious...what do you two think are some of the responsibilities of an s-type?
Mon 10:09:56 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . ~thinks~
to learn what pleases their Dominant
Mon 10:09:57 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . the discussion of responsibilities of a submissive or bottom is being conducted seperately to the responsibilities of a Dominant/Top, i think, because there is a lot that can be said for both sides.. more than what can be covered in enough detail for one discussion... and as well as that.. i think there's a better understanding of a D/T's responsibilities than the other... so exploring that side feels like it might be more enlightening to most..
Mon 10:10:21 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . hello Alexandra...the choice to focus on the one side of the equation tonight is because it is a vast topic...but of course if the discussion turns to also focus on the responsibilities of the responsibilities of the D-type...well then that is as the conversation goes...*warm smile*.
Mon 10:10:30 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . to be honest in their likes/dislikes and limits
Mon 10:11:09 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *grinning as I hear ellabella's response as well*
Mon 10:11:33 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *listening to chally's responses*
*thinking*
Mon 10:13:03 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . ~nods to ella~ I think one is contingent on the other, so there'd be a skewed perspective to separate them.
But... carry on. What do I know.
Mon 10:13:41 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . at first thought, i would have listed an s type's responsibilities to include honest communication, patience, a commitment to learn and grow, openness.. but i was doing some Google reading before coming in and something i didn't think of at first, that i found really interesting.. was discretion.. i'm in the mindset that that is a very important responsibility..
Mon 10:16:47 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . discretion...interesting ellabella. what do you mean or think that means in relation to being a responsibility of an s-type?
and yah...chally...I agree...to learn what one's D-type wants...but also to be totally honest and open about their individual likes and dislikes. how about even when one's likes and dislikes are in conflict with their D's wishes or likes or dislikes, even?
Mon 10:16:57 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . ~looks to ella~
discretion in what way? i think i hold my Master's privacy and personal desires like a treasure...and they are safe with me. Is that what you mean?
Mon 10:18:00 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . Zig, especially then, as i know as a submissive i struggle with wanting to please and also to be honest if He wants to do something i do not like
Mon 10:18:26 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . i think one is contingent on the other too.. *looking to Alexandra..* and it's definitely tricky to think of one without considering the other.. actually, maybe impossible.. but i like to think both sides of the subject have enough potential for strong discussions on their own..
Mon 10:18:35 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . did that make sense? it sounds confusing as i read it now
Mon 10:24:05 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . i have a past that includes emotional abuse, so when my D-type wants me to do something that i don't like, i have a hard time to not feel as if i am being forced.....because i wish to please so much...i have cried through an experience because of the emotional conflict
Mon 10:24:07 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *nodding*
I agree, chally. sharing honestly is the way to go. even and especially when it's hard to do so.
so aside from the big concepts related to honesty and communication stuff...are there across-the-board nuts and bolts things that are s-type responsibilities...like in vt...maintaining One's area...or frequently referring to their One as a means to express connection and loyalty to One? Or even, are there more abstract concepts too...like seeing how every action and choice one makes is reflection of their commitment to One? or are those things...D-type specific...based on the D's preference and the s-type's personality, or perhaps, a combination of the Ttwo?
Mon 10:24:24 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . ok discretion... i mean... *reiterating what i read* it goes hand in hand with the responsibility to be honest and open... for example.. if i had some sort of problem within my relationship.. it's my responsibility to be open and honest with Daddy about it, and practice discretion by resolving my problem that way, rather than making it public knowledge or a subject of gossip..
another example... and maybe it's not so much a responsibility at this point, but rather a display of maturity and trust.. but if a relationship has ended... the practice of discretion.. as in.. not dishing out all that was once sacred because it's over now.. *looking to Alexandra with a little grin* that would go both ways, as a responsibility of the D type too, so there you go.. maybe the two can't be separated..
Mon 10:25:59 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *reading chally's last ost*
oooh, chally...I'm sorry to hear that you have experienced that.
does it make you hesitant to share openly now with your One?
Mon 10:26:06 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . i think those things are relationship specific..my Master couldn't care less if anyone knows i am His, unless they want to do something with me that is reserves for Him...then He relies on me to make that fact known.
Mon 10:26:30 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . I think those would be mainly the desire of the D. ~nods to Tzigane~ If a submissive does those things, fine. But if the D requires the submissive to do them, it's a D desire.
Mon 10:27:21 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . ~listens to chally, thoughtful~
Mon 10:27:35 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . oh no Zig, quite the opposite..i decided that those things will never happen again and are a hard limit for me....it's not been a problem,
Mon 10:29:19 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . that experience taught me that there shouldn't be any grey around a hard limit...and if it is something that could be pushed, then it isn't a "hard" limit
Mon 10:29:29 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *listening to ellabella*
I like that idea...to see what could potentially be a sticky mess if shared publicly...and choosing to approach your D with it privately....so as to diffuse the gossip. and yah...I agree that falls on the D shoulders as well...as a responsibility.
I had a D once tell Me in Oour relationship together...that the Oone that sees the problem has the responsibility to address it...whether s or D. I have always tried to stick to that in My relationships regardless of the dynamic.
Mon 10:29:29 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . *listening to the Princess..* i think those kinds of things are important too, and all fall under the responsibility of being a positive reflection of the Dominant/Top in the relationship.. i think they closely link to the responsibilities given to us by the D/T as opposed to the ones we, ideally, should naturally display..
Mon 10:29:52 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . I think most of what is being talked about here, are more between the basic tenets of D/s relationships and the preferences of those involved. Not responsibility in the broader D/s sense.
Mon 10:32:00 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . i agree with Alexandra....it's different with each dynamic and is part of the exploration that goes on between T/two
Mon 10:32:11 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . *hearing Alexandra..* so how would you describe responsibility in the broader D/s sense...?
Mon 10:33:37 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *hearing chally and smiling soft*
good. I am glad that you have made the decision to be nothing less than totally transparent in your relationships with One, despite all your experiences...even because of all you have been through, chally.
and yah...hard limits...that is a whole other topic...one often bandied about lately in the D...but yes...hard limits are things not to be pushed...and a responsibility of both the D and the s to know about and honor, in My opinion.
Mon 10:34:12 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . You all seem to be forgetting the fact the BDSM is based on a culture that was created for the support and protection of those involved in it. It is meant to be a cooperative environment.
If someone in a relationship is feeling concerned about something, certainly they must be open with their partner about it.
But if it is something that for some reason they feel they can't for whatever reason, or they have issues within the relationship about, everyone in a D/s relationship should have someone they trust outside that relationship that they can talk to and help give them perspective.
THAT is about responsibility. Especially for a D, to make sure their bottom or submissive has such a support system.
A closed D/s relationship would be prone to insulation and isolation that can be detriment to both the participants and the relationship itself.
Mon 10:34:36 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *hearing ella's question to Alexandra...giving a lil grin as My ears perk to hear Alexandra's response*
Mon 10:36:11 PM EDT Jun 13 silk~n~steele . . . Parks a lean to listen..fingers playing with my ribbon. ..one eye on work...
Mon 10:36:12 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . ~nods~ i have a submissive friend whom i have mentioned before who is my safety if i meet anyone new or to talk things through with.
Mon 10:37:25 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . ~nods to chally~ That's good. ~s~
Mon 10:38:22 PM EDT Jun 13 silk~n~steele . . . Has both another Dominants and a submissive I can go to for both views and understandings...would be lost without them
Mon 10:39:43 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . ~chuckles~ i have a few Dominants....who have settled into being friends with me once they learned i was unavailable
Mon 10:40:11 PM EDT Jun 13 silk~n~steele . . . I do not agree with you Tzigane about pushing hard limits...for I have found my hard limit wasn't as hard as I thought when the trust grew...and He pushed it when He knew in could handle it...I know a few that have had their limits pushed..
Mon 10:40:13 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *listening to chally and Alexandra Bboth...giving a friendly lil grin of welcome to silk~n~steele*
yes, I agree...having a support system is crucial for both the D and the s...but a support system that Oone can trust that over time has proven to be comprised of Ppeople that genuinely have Oone's best interest and growth at the heart of the relationship...which is different than just trusting the general public....which goes back to ella's point about discretion.
Mon 10:40:59 PM EDT Jun 13 silk~n~steele . . . Mind you it is all within reason and what not...
Mon 10:41:09 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . I believe the lion's share of overall responsibility in a D/s relationship lies squarely at the top/dominant's feet.
A bottom/submissive's responsibilities are actually a subset of that.
They are responsible for taking care of themselves in a manner pleasing to the dominant, they are responsible for being clear and open in communication about everything, they are responsible for things as put to them by the dominant or top.
For the top/dominant, their first responsibility is to the submissive... ensuring their safety and well-being, and not just in scene, but in general life and the relationship. And they have the same responsibilities as the bottom, from their end of things.
It's all interrelated. They are not separate issues, but intertwined together. One reflects the other.
Mon 10:41:41 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . *smiles to silk..*
i agree.. everyone should have a support system in place.. that would be the responsibility of both, i think.. having someone to talk to is something was wrong is not what i was thinking when i mentioned discretion.. if one is concerned and needs to talk, that is different to one gossiping just to air some news.. it's difficult to convey a lot of these thoughts while properly communicating all the grey areas and alternative circumstances...
Mon 10:42:22 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . ~looks to silk~
my hard limits are only labeled as such once i know that if my Master or anyone ever asked me to do them, or heaven forbid tried to enforce that i do them, i would realize it is abuse and a violation of the trust i have placed in them.
Mon 10:43:15 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *listening to silk~steele*
that's interesting to hear, silk~n~steele. truly. I can certainly understand how in a long term deeply connected relationship a D may push a hard limit of Their s...but what if it is the other way around...should the s push a hard limit of Their D...if the relationship is of the long term deeply committed type described?
Mon 10:43:32 PM EDT Jun 13 heather{JT} . . . ~leans in~
Mon 10:43:40 PM EDT Jun 13 silk~n~steele . . . Do You think Alexandra that the responsibility goes to the Dominant if they allow their sub to play with Another...to be sure they are taken care of..or is that up to the other Dominant..
Mon 10:44:09 PM EDT Jun 13 heather{JT} . . . only if the dominant has indicated they desire such...
Mon 10:44:37 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . The limits thing is whole other topic and conversation, but ~nods to silknsteele~ Just because something is given as a "hard limit", does not mean it cannot be pushed... that it is untouchable.
Once a dominant knows a submissive deeply, and if they are worth their salt as a dominant... has the experience and skills required... they can decide whether that matter can be approached, why it should or needs to be approached, and how to approach it.
Things stated as hard limits tend to be phobias and thing born of past abuse. A skilled dominant can help a submissive move past these things and come to terms with them, instead of carrying that burden the rest of their lives.
Mon 10:45:38 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . ~listens to Alexandra and almost would like to have that happen~
Mon 10:46:32 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . *nods as i listen.. looking at an online list that i'm not sure i agree with..* what about consistency? following through with the same presentation of willingness and effort? is that a responsibility? or just something that would be nice?
Mon 10:47:04 PM EDT Jun 13 petknight . . . *slips in quietly*
Mon 10:47:04 PM EDT Jun 13 silk~n~steele . . . As I said chally all within reason..if your limits are to that effect then there would be nonreason to push them...I am thinking more along the lines of say..I can't stand being blindfolded...or whipped..kind of thing...
Tzigane...it would depend on the relationship I guess..but being a submissive I am not there to do such...do I push..yes...but to a point...I don't see how I could push my Dominants hard limit unless it was at Their request and guidance...
Mon 10:47:55 PM EDT Jun 13 heather{JT} . . . Daddy is slowly on a path to break one of my long held hard limits..born of abuse......but we've been together years...I trust him with my life..
Mon 10:48:08 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . *smiles to heather and the boy as they enter.. listening..*
Mon 10:48:16 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *nodding hearing ellabella*
yes...it is a drawback of talking of things in a non-specific way...and even more so in this vt format...relationships and responsibilities are as much defined by Tthose in the relationship and Ttheir unique connection as is it is by standard BDSM culture...there is no "right way"...there are suggestions, the experience of Oothers, but there is also...what works for the Ttwo and Ttheir relationship...and Ttheir honesty and communication about that to Eeach Oother...at least that is how I see it.
Mon 10:48:51 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . Absolutely, silknsteele. ~nods~ It is the top/dominant that gives the go-ahead, so it is their responsibility to ensure their bottom/submissive is safe and comfortable in the situation, and to be there to provide or help with whatever care is needed afterwards.
Mon 10:51:26 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . The s/b can 'push' according to what the dominant allows. The dominant leads. Period. The moment that is not the case, it is no longer D/s, or the roles and responsibilities have switched and needs to be recognized and discussed.
Mon 10:52:04 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *warm smile to petknight as he enters...then another friendly grin to heather...listening*
Mon 10:52:56 PM EDT Jun 13 petknight . . . *settles at Tzi's feet as i catch up on the conversation*
Mon 10:53:02 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . Consistency in certain things is important, ~nods to ella~ But things change, people and relationships evolve over time... what might have been true for some things at the start may not be so in a year, or even a few months.
Consistency of approach, is important... consistency in regular and open communication is important...
Mon 10:54:38 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *hearing Alexandra respond to silk~n~steele's question*
yknow, I feel exactly the same way...though I don't always believe it is the D-type's responsibility to make sure all the world knows or understands exactly how the D-type ensures the safety and well-being of Theirs...only that is done...and that the s's needs are indeed seen too.
Mon 10:55:16 PM EDT Jun 13 silk~n~steele . . . Sorry work grabbed me
Mon 10:55:46 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . ~listens~
Mon 10:55:55 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . ~listens to Tzigane and chuckles~ Oh, there is no "right way"? ~soft laugh~ Then why are we calling it BDSM? Why do we speak of BDSM and "vanilla" as separate and different things? Why do we speak of abuse as not being BDSM?
If there's no "right way", there'd be no differentiation.
Mon 10:56:16 PM EDT Jun 13 heather{JT} . . . ~realizes something and decides t'just listen~
Mon 10:57:30 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . *nodding..* that's a good point.. about relationships and people changing and evolving.. but essentially... the constant, or what we'd like it to be, is the fulfilment of each other's needs.. so if that is not happening.. if responsibilities aren't being met.. i know there many opinions and experiences of neglect (from an s type perspective).. but if the lowercase doesn't follow through with their responsibilities, is that neglect too? or just a bad submissive, so to speak?
Mon 10:59:16 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *soft smile*
Alexandra...I beleive there are tenets and cultures in the lifestyle...but what You do is certainly not what I would always chose to do...nor...do I imagine what I do would be what You chose to do. does that make One of us wrong...and the Other right? or does it make Us Both individuals conducting Our lives and relationships in this lifestyle Our Own inique experience that is meaningful and pleasurable to Both Ourselves and those that We are connected to?
Mon 10:59:34 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . If something is made public, if the negotiations and discussions about it are public, if the "aftermath" is made public, then the logistics need to be public as well. You want it private. Fine. Then make the whole thing private.
Allowing people to see one thing, and coming out and saying "that's not what it looks like", is a little like telling people, I want you to eat this but I'm not going to tell you what's in it.
Mon 11:00:06 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . inique=unique
Mon 11:00:12 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . i think there being "no right way" is true once we are past any question of SSC and the there is an establishment of One leading and one following.. and i think that's what was meant..
Mon 11:01:40 PM EDT Jun 13 heather{JT} . . . we each carry a responsibility, ella..each person in an established relationship...even as simple play partners...so yes, that's neglect too..it takes two..to make something work..
Mon 11:01:42 PM EDT Jun 13 *BlackLion* . . . Stepping from the shadows behind My pet.....
My pets only responsibilities to Me are
To never to do anything that will reflect bad on Me/ her
To always communicate with Me .....good and/ or bad....it does not matter
To show the respect that is due
To look after her health......
The rest I feel is Mine to deal with or work out with her......
Mon 11:02:24 PM EDT Jun 13 silk~n~steele . . . Having been pulled away not sure I understand..are you saying Tzigane that no one needs to worry about anyone else?
So if I see a Dom not giving what a sub needs or leaving them hanging I should not worry about it?
Mon 11:03:23 PM EDT Jun 13 silk~n~steele . . . Leans back into BlackLion. ..feeling the sensitive marks on my back as I do so...
Mon 11:04:08 PM EDT Jun 13 petknight . . . does not the submissive have a responsibility to look out for their Dominant though? at least in certain ways?
Mon 11:04:10 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . I may not like what you like, Tzigane, nor vice versa, but what we each do to call what we do BDSM or D/s, has parameters to be called so. That is all I'm saying. So in that sense, there IS a 'right way'.
If you call your relationship D/s, there need to be D/s elements in it. Otherwise, any kind of relationship can be called D/s.
If you say you are doing BDSM and you are practicing the tenets of safe BDSM, that needs to be so, and if someone sees something "off", because this is a community created for support and protection, if they call you on it, you need to clarify it for you own sake and reputation.
People are generally discreet with a "to each his own" attitude. It would take a lot for someone in this community to call out something they think is "off", so if they do, be prepared, within a community like this, to be clear and not defensive.
Mon 11:05:02 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . ~smiles seeing BlackLion~ Glad you could make it.
Mon 11:05:04 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . *nodding to heather..* that's what i think as well.. there needs to be equal effort for a dynamic to work.. it's frankly disrespectful and dismissive if O/one is clearly more invested and the other is unmatched..
*smiling to BlackLion..* those are pretty much the responsibilities i uphold to Daddy.. i imagine that standard and expectation is very common..
Mon 11:06:11 PM EDT Jun 13 silk~n~steele . . . petknight. ..I believe we do...as much as we are allowed or course...we are all human...my rt from long ago..was loosing Himself. .and I brought it up in one of our free times where I was able to talk freely. ..to point it out...
Mon 11:06:27 PM EDT Jun 13 *BlackLion* . . . As long as she does these things she is looking out after Me/ what is Mine......the rest of the day to day stuff of life is what has to be worked on.....by B/both......so the responsibility I feel falls on both to make sure it works......
Mon 11:06:28 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . ~nods to petknight~ Certainly.
Mon 11:06:54 PM EDT Jun 13 petknight . . . exactly like that ms steele
Mon 11:07:20 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . *hearing the boy.. curious..* like in what ways do you imagine a sub looking out for their Dominant..?
Mon 11:07:37 PM EDT Jun 13 silk~n~steele . . . Smiles to BlackLion..as with all relationships..it is a two way street...
Mon 11:08:09 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . Tell me something please, BlackLion. As a dominant, you would be the one approached if someone thought something you did (or didn't do) in a scene was unsafe or inappropriate.
If they approached you about it, asking respectfully, why you did something a certain way, or why did you not do another thing... how would you respond?
Mon 11:08:11 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . no silk...I think that certainly if Oone sees aanother being treated in a concerning way...it is a responsibility to address it...but to not make assumptions about the situation...there is a lot that goes into relationships...a lot that isn't seen...a lot of responsibilities that are conducted daily in private and to imagine Oone fully understands all the myriad complex things in Aanother's relationship is egotism. so if I saw something of concern I would address it...ask for more information...listen...before making assumptions or publicly declaring I understand the situation entire and publicly condemn it. that is a Ccommunity responsibility...it is respectful.
Mon 11:08:28 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . *hearing silk..* ok, i get it.. i was thinking something else. but yeah i agree in that instance..
Mon 11:08:37 PM EDT Jun 13 *BlackLion* . . . Yes I feel they are ella.....but do not try to put more on the subs than what there needs to be.....because the power exchanged is lost.......thus the relationship is not balanced as it should be.....
Mon 11:09:23 PM EDT Jun 13 petknight . . . Dominatnes be protector/warrior/controllers have to be outwardly strong at all times, i think a submissive has a responsibilty, being in many ways quite intimate and privy to their Dominant's heart and mind, to guard them as well
Mon 11:09:54 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *soft smile...listening more*
Mon 11:10:40 PM EDT Jun 13 silk~n~steele . . . Tzigane. .that is life...people assume...and
Work brb
Mon 11:10:43 PM EDT Jun 13 *BlackLion* . . . Looking to Alex.......I would try to respond back as respectfully as I was asked.....and then try My best to explain why I did or did not do a certain thing......even if I had toget silk in to speak about her side of it.......
Mon 11:11:18 PM EDT Jun 13 chally . . . ~tries to rub the tension from my neck, winces as i turn my head side to side, having been dealing with this stiff neck now for about a week, hopes it's not her DJD acting up, slips out quietly to don her soft cervical collar~
Mon 11:12:40 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . blessed night, chally.
and hello BlackLion.
*listening some more*
Mon 11:12:45 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . *listening to the Princess..* we are all human and assumptions and judgements are hard not to taste sometimes.. but i'm with you.. the dynamics of a relationship can be so complex and more often than not, what we see publicly is just the tip of an iceberg..
in saying that, i think it's important for everyone to strive to be confident enough in their relationships, that the expression of others is taken as just that.. a perspective on that one snippet that was shared..
Mon 11:13:02 PM EDT Jun 13 *BlackLion* . . . Sorry folks time calls Me.....
Alex could You let silk know I said bye.......
Have a good night A/all
Mon 11:13:50 PM EDT Jun 13 petknight . . . be well BL
Mon 11:13:51 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . ~nods, hearing BlackLion~ Indeed. As I think would any of us with experience in the community.
Because BDSM is a collective and cooperative community... that is it's purpose. If someone doesn't understand something, they have every right to ask about it. And the one being asked has the responsibility to educate as well as they can.
I think this is almost where we started in here... that we are all adults sharing a common space and a (mostly) common mindset. As such, there is no need for defensiveness unless there is an actual attack.
Sharing of information should not be seen as a defence, but as a cooperative endeavour.
Mon 11:14:11 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . I will, thank you, BlackLion. Take care.
Mon 11:15:42 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . *smiles after BlackLion, silk and chally..*
Mon 11:18:31 PM EDT Jun 13 petknight . . . be well chally and ms steele
Mon 11:18:49 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . ah and again I agree with You, Alexandra...but in addittion to seeing the Ccommunity responsibility in Wwe Eeach hold for Oothers in Oour Ccommunity...I beleive there is a respectful way to address such situations Wwe as Iindivuals perceive as "off" and a less respectful or appropriate way too...outright playing judge and jury over a snippet of a interaction witnessed from the outside...without talking to Aall involved in the situation is well...mud-slinging.
Mon 11:20:25 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . blessed night, BL and silk~n~steele.
Mon 11:22:27 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . ~chuckles~
Indeed, Tzigane. ~nods~ I agree.
Mon 11:24:41 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . *smiles at both of them..* i'm glad we touched on the responsibility of a community too.. because that's something that i think i see an incredible display of sometimes.. and other times.. not at all.. but it's so important
Mon 11:26:20 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . So. Let's call spades spades then, shall we? Since this is Timeout, after all.
Several comments were made today about your behaviour after a T or D game and then an interaction between petknight and Glory.
What was seen was seen as "off" by several.
This was brought up today, when petknight was about. I'm sure you saw or are otherwise aware of these comments.
There was no, "I will let my top know you wanted to know more", nor was there any comment from you to clarify anything, except to assume for your own part, that you were being judged based on not enough information.
As a top in the community, it is your responsibility to clarify issues you see as being incorrect, especially those concerning yourself and/or your bottom.
Mon 11:26:51 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . like.. and i'm spiralling a bit from the original thought... the responsibility of s types to each other.. what do we think of that? it's been said before.. that we owe it to each other to warn newer visitors, or anyone really, if we feel they are falling into a predatory or unappealing situation.. do we do that?
Mon 11:28:34 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *nodding lots hearing ellabella*
yes! I do so enjoy how a single seed of a topic can grow to branch out and touch on other important concepts! what a great discussion. I have to take My leave. blessings to Aall of Yyou.
Mon 11:29:49 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *pausing hearing Alexandra*
Mon 11:30:25 PM EDT Jun 13 petknight . . . *frowns...*
Mon 11:32:15 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . *smiles gently to the boy..*
Mon 11:32:31 PM EDT Jun 13 silk~n~steele . . . Returns...sorry work is busy do to an auction
Mon 11:32:32 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . *soft smile*
Oh Alexandra...You are taking the bull by the horns aren't You?
ok. I would be happy to address Your direct question to Me. I hesitate to do that in here because of the format of this room and the transcripts in this room being saved. but as You mentioned this room does afford some tenets of behavior not otherwise available in the D. so...Your choice..I can answer here...or in the D.
Mon 11:33:36 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . There is no need for frowns, petknight. ~s~ I am merely attempting to illustrate a situation in which a community can be cooperative and helpful to each other, but bringing things into the open and being honest and mature about them, instead of being buried until the morass of speculation and uncertainty that is usually the case.
Mon 11:34:28 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . The format of this room is actually ideal, Tzigane. We are all protected under its tenets. ~s~
All that is required is honest and respectful intercourse.
Mon 11:35:15 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . but=by ~in previous post~
Mon 11:35:15 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . *looks from one voice to the other.. listening curiously..*
welcome back, silk..
Mon 11:36:19 PM EDT Jun 13 heather{JT} . . . ~idles by as monitor on semi-awake duty~
Mon 11:36:30 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . ok. give Me a moment Alexandra...I type slow.
Mon 11:38:03 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . ~twinkly grin to the semi-awake monitor-on-duty~
Mon 11:39:21 PM EDT Jun 13 silk~n~steele . . . Thank you ella...
Mon 11:41:37 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . No worries, Tzigane. ~s~
Mon 11:44:02 PM EDT Jun 13 petknight . . . *sits quiet listening*
Mon 11:44:35 PM EDT Jun 13 Tzigane . . . so the other night...during petknight's interaction with Glory...I was in reds with Glory. I was providing information to Glory about petknight...information Glory asked for...but also information that I initiated in sharing with Him about My concerns for petknight's well-being based on what I have learned of petknight from Oour multiple and daily private conversations in reds and instant message. You were in the room as was BlackLion...and Your comments about petknight and BlackLion's comments about petknight...I knew were stressing petknight out...I communicated this to Glory in reds...and then I engaged in the outloud and very public interaction with BlackLion's IT as a way to run interference...to draw the Ccommunity eye away from petknight so the focus would shift a lil...give petknight a lil space with Glory...this was ok'ed by Glory...later after the interaction between Glory and petknight...before Glory left...I also thanked Glory in reds for His care and attention to petknight...I have deep and abiding respect for Glory. I do not believe Glory feels otherwise...though I do intend to check in with Him on that when next My path crosses His. (more)
Mon 11:46:33 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . ~reads, nods, has questions already, but waits for her to finish~
Mon 11:55:09 PM EDT Jun 13 heather{JT} . . . I can't remain..I trust everyone to keep this adult and educational...
g'night..~s~
Mon 11:57:08 PM EDT Jun 13 little ella . . . *smiles..* sweet dreams, heather..
Mon 11:57:39 PM EDT Jun 13 Alexandra . . . I'm sure it will be fine. ~s~ 'Night, babe. ~blows a kiss~
Mon 11:57:59 PM EDT Jun 13 petknight . . . by heather
Tue 12:02:31 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . as to what transpired between petknight and I prior to that interaction...specifically in regards to the T or D game and My reaction...that is a more complicated issue. I have a very complex series of personal things going on in My rt right now...petknight is fully informed about all of it...I shared it with him because I view it as responsible to inform him when I know My rt is going to influence all areas of My life...petknight knew I was not going to be available on Friday night....and You...I believe overstepped Your bounds by commissioning petknight to organize a game of T or D...however what he chose to with that...accept the commission or not was his choice...and I encourage him to be active..to be his naturally social brilliant self...cuz well it's him...and he does it well...and I admire and value these traits in him...but the fact that he took Your commission without talking to Me...irked Me...I got over it because i really would like to beleive You didn't issue such in any real malice or personal attack kinda way...but then in the game...in a moment of over-enthusiasm and a desire to be sensational...petknight issued You a dare I took much issue with...daring You to remove his underwear with Your teeth...it was a poor reflection in My opinion of who and what he is to Me...and I to him...something that again I have talked to him much about...how his choices and actions in here...and likewise My choices and actions in here are a reflection of Oour relationship...so yah...I got very upset. But again...because I care very deply for him...and I have a decent understan
Post exceeded maximum post size
Tue 12:05:15 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . ~waits to see if she adds what was missed~
Tue 12:06:20 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . and I have a decent understanding of who he is...and because My rt was very full on Friday night...I made the choice to step back...reflect...calm Myself down before approaching him with the issue. I did reach out to him in instant message a bit...not completely cutting off all communication...because that would be cruel. Then when the Glory thing happened...I still hadn't had the time or headspace to approach petknight with My concerns...as I had planned too...but the Glory thing happened when I did not know it was going too...and I expressed to Glory in reds to please not leave petknight outta sorts because I was unable that evening to help petknight sort himself to rights if that were to be the case...Glory understood. (more)
Tue 12:07:55 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . ~nods and waits, listening~
Tue 12:20:56 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . and then...there was the strange cold interaction between petknight and Myself...what was posted public was a snippet of what was actually said between petknight and Myself...Wwe were also talking in reds and in instant message...I did check in on him...and assessed in My own understandings of who he is...that he was ok after his interaction with Glory...My number one priority...to make sure he was good after that potentially very intense exchange...and he was...to My understanding...but at that time I also let it be known that Wwe had matters to discuss...he hadn't previously realized I was upset...as I intended it to be...but once I ascertained he was solid after his thing with Glory...I gave him an assignment...to reflect upon his own behavior and choices over the previous 24 hours...to put himself in My shoes...to try to understand why I might be upset...I gave him a generous deadline to complete his email response to me...but encouraged him to respond earlier if he could...and I assured him Wwe would discuss the matter...that I wasn't going anywhere...but that Wwe needed to sort out some stuff...and yah he responded the next day...as soon as he was able to, with his email response...but before that...I reached out to him in instant message...again letting him know I was just upset...that bumps in the road happen and that is important to fully discuss them...explore them...discover together how to avoid having the same bump again in the future...and yah..I got his email...and last night Wwe discussed in length the whole situation and have come to some new understandings
Post exceeded maximum post size
Tue 12:21:49 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . and last night Wwe discussed in length the whole situation and have come to some new understandings and respect and appreciation for Eeach Oother...I think. Overall...I think the experience was a bit of a testing for Uus...for Oour relationship...but Wwe navigated it well. Could have it been navigated better...perhaps...and in the future i hope when wwe encounter such tests again...it will be....this is what learning and growth is all about...not immediate perfection...but a willingness to grow and learn and be mature and kind and respectful to Eeach Oother during the process. (done)
Tue 12:23:50 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . ~nods, smiling, having read and absorbed... re-reading between posts as well~
Thank you for such a detailed account, Tzigane. I certainly didn't expect such detail, but I appreciate it.
Do you have time for a response from me, which might also take a few posts?
Tue 12:25:46 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . I do have the time tonight, Alexandra..thank You for the asking. *listening*
Tue 12:26:06 AM EDT Jun 14 petknight . . . i do wish to officially say i concur and stand by every thing that Tzigane said
Tue 12:26:26 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . Good. ~s~ and thank you. Give me a moment...
Tue 12:26:54 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . ~nods to petknight~ Thank you, but truly and sincerely, this isn't a trial. ~s~
~begins to type the first~
Tue 12:27:56 AM EDT Jun 14 little ella . . . *nods gently..* a very true summation of dynamics and the progress of understanding..
Tue 12:30:12 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . The first thing I want to look at is, if you felt petknight was uncomfortable with public attention or focus, is there a reason you didn't ask Glory to go to red with the interaction, or to suspend it? Especially as he was so new to this?
Why did you feel and attempt to shift the focus to you would have been helpful?
Also, I would ask if you are open to suggestions on all of this from me, someone with a bit more experience in this community?
Tue 12:30:24 AM EDT Jun 14 silk~n~steele . . . Leans in and out do to work...
Tue 12:30:45 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . thanks, pet. *soft smile*
*lil nod to ella and then to Alexandra...acknowledging Bboth of Ttheir words*
Tue 12:36:44 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . I trust Glory, Alexandra.and petknight does too...and petknight knows he can at any moment talk to Aanyone about any concerns he has regarding his own personal self...I talk to him much about this...how being an s-type means being empowered...a willing participant in what is happening to him. that Glory knows this and respects it...and asks the same of petknight...expects the same of petknight. but I also understand that petknight is new to all this..and it takes a certin kind of courage for him to speak up himself...a skill he is working on...so yah...should I have stepped in during the interaction...perhaps...would i in the future...if I saw the events unfold where it looked like or i sensed he needed me too...yes...I'm learning, Alexandra...I do not claim to be an expert at this. but I do learn with every interaction how I can grow and nuture My pet better.
Tue 12:37:43 AM EDT Jun 14 petknight . . . *smiles and rumbles proudly*
Tue 12:40:14 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . as to Your second question, Alexandra...I learn by trial and error...by the doing of things...not always the most effective or clean way of learning...but it is My way...so I was trying out a strategy by playing with IT...yah...it didn't work out well...*wry lil smile*...so now I know.
Tue 12:41:15 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . I do understand all of that, Tzigane, as you expressed it. ~s~ I'm just wanting to clarify that since you said you felt petknight was so uncomfortable you had to distract attention from his interaction with Glory, why let it continue in public at all?
I'm only asking because, were I in a similar situation and felt the same way, I would either halt the interaction or have it taken private, where there was less attention.
I would not have attempted to draw attention to myself and away from a public scene, if it was to remain in public. As you know, a public scene receives public attention... that cannot be helped.
I do apologize if attentions from myself or Blacklion were inappropriate, but honestly, I don't remember what either of us said or did that could have been considered so. We are both respectful of public scenes and I'm surprised anyone who thought our behaviour was inappropriate would have let it continue without comment.
Tue 12:41:16 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . and as to Your final question...give Me a mo...
Tue 12:43:57 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . Tzigane, understand something. I am not having this conversation as a way to simply point out what I think you did "wrong", nor to put you "on the spot", or any such thing.
I initiated this conversation as exactly what I stated... an attempt at illustrating how a cooperative community can help its members mutually through honest and open communication and sharing.
The only goal I have here is to try to understand a situation that has led to some controversy, and try to offer the benefit of experience to one less experienced.
Tue 12:49:14 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . Alexandra...I asked You long ago if You would Mentor Me...help Me grow...back when I was first new here...and in My recollections...You studied Me for a few days...and then later...publicly declared I wasn't worth Your time. That I possessed some measure of intelligence but that You neither liked Me or found in Me Someone Who could learn from You...that I am manipulative and I have a habit of twisting words or misunderstanding them deliberately. So yah...while Your offer to give Me advice now is appreciated...and certainly I have always found Your viewpoints interesting and worthy of respect based on Your experience...it does give Me pause to wonder why You would consider offering advice to Me now when before You thought I was One unworthy of such?
Tue 12:52:20 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . I understand, Alexandra...I am not in defensive or attack mode...I appreciate this discussion.
Tue 12:53:40 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . ~blinks~ Did I say you weren't worth my time? Or did you interpret what I said as meaning that? I would never say such a thing.
I believe what I said was (paraphrasing) that I thought what you sought was not what I could teach you, nor did I think what I could teach you was what you sought.
Yes. You are correct in that I did think you were manipulative in inappropriate ways, and I had to correct you several times on taking my words out of context and giving them a meaning that was not intended, as you as doing now.
I am not offering mentorship now. I am offering some possible alternatives in dealing with a specific situation that I feel could have been handled differently for a better outcome. That is all. And that is not mentorship. It is what I stated at the beginning of this conversation.
Tue 12:58:55 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . I am glad you do.
So do you accept my suggestion of, in the situation as you described about Glory's interaction with petknight and his discomfort, perhaps taking it private or suspending it altogether might have been a better approach than letting it continue in public while trying to draw attention to your own actions?
Just want to be clear. ~s~
Tue 01:00:57 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . Also...just to add in some extra info that I haven't readily shared in here...cuz well it just never seemed the moment too...and I am a damn slow typer...*lil laff*...I am active rt...I have a network of rt lifestyle Ffriends...and I am exploring My identity as a Top in My rt...workshops, classes, events there...and talking to People...listening to Ppeople...interacting with Ppeople...watching Ppeople interact...I take this very seriously...it is not a game to Me...and yah...I realize I dont know a lot...and the pet knows this too...and he knows that at anytime if he feels he would rather grow Under Another...that is his choice...I do not aim to hold him separate and away from the Ccommunity...but rather encourage him to seek and find what nurtures him and his journey, it truly is his choice to stay with Me or not....and I have let him know time and time again I am here, I am not going anywhere.
Tue 01:02:14 AM EDT Jun 14 petknight . . . *nods, knowing this indeed
Tue 01:02:17 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . ~nods~ Thank you for adding that. It's appreciated. ~s~
Tue 01:03:26 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . *soft smile*
it is a good suggestion Alexandra. One I had thought of Myself and it is good to hear You came to the same idea...so yes...in future I can certainly see how it is a solid solution to such a situation.
Tue 01:03:57 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . I also think that the results of the other night... the nights in question, and this type of controversy, are uniquely VT. It would probably happen very differently in rt.
Each realm requires different tactics and solutions. ~nods~
Tue 01:04:35 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . Do you understand why? ~s~
Tue 01:05:01 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . I mean, why the suggestion offered would have been better.
Tue 01:07:10 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . as to the Mentor topic...understood...and I wasn't asking You to Mentor Me now...but Your offer to give Me advice...well it received with some suspicion on My behalf. I respect You. So any advice You are willing to freely offer I am willing to freely accept. I cannot promise I will follow Your advice...but I will take it into consideration in the friendly experienced Voice I am sure You mean it in.
Tue 01:08:37 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . I do understand why it is a better solution, Alexandra. *s*
Tue 01:10:02 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . ~soft laugh~ In my experience, Tzigane, any suggestions offered someone who is either not a friend, or someone still new at 'all this', it is almost guaranteed it will not be taken outright, but "under consideration". Sometimes not even that. ~g~
But it is always offered in the spirit of support and helpful guidance, regardless.
Tue 01:11:13 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . thank You for that clarfication, Alexandra.
Tue 01:11:44 AM EDT Jun 14 petknight . . . *excuses self to the Dungeon*
Tue 01:13:26 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . Alright, so onward. I'm sure neither of us have all night. ~g~
I still have concern as to how BlackLion and myself made comments that were making petknight uncomfortable? Would you mind clarifying that? As I said, we are both long-standing members of this community, and have rt experience as well, so such a thing would be appalling to either of us, and in this kind of community, should a comment be received offensively, we would expect to be informed of it.
Tue 01:17:05 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . Honestly, Alexandra...I cant exactly recall what was said by You and BlackLion...and I do not have the saved transcripts to call upon...I do recall that whatever was said by You and BlackLion...in the moment, at that time was "felt" by Me to be upsetting to petknight...I have no doubt that neither You or Black Lion meant any harm in Your commentary...but words are powerful things and they sometimes have unintended effects upon the receiver...so yah...in the future...as Wwe just established...always best to call such things out as they are seen and heard and experienced in the moment. *soft smile*
Tue 01:22:05 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . ~nods~ Alright then.
So yes, in the future, best to approach such things directly.
Remember, this is about protecting your bottom. Anything you feel is being detrimental to him, should be addressed by you. You should be trying everything in your power to make his experience as comfortable and safe as you can.
We are all reasonable people. ~s~
Tue 01:25:59 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . protecting My bottom...*lil grin...trying really hard to not make an obvious comment or two about that combo of words*
seriously, yes...I never have any intention or priority in My interactions with the pet other than that I am here for him...as much as he is here for Me...it's an EXCHANGE...and Bboth of Uus should be happier, healthier, more satisfied, and better Ppeople for such.
Tue 01:26:36 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . Okay, so next thing... the evening of the T or D game.
It seems to me that your feelings about that had a direct effect on how you felt about things the following night, so it's important to address in the same context.
First of all, T or D games in here do tend to get fairly ribald. There is a history of that. At the outset, heather (being official game moderator) states the rules of the game, which includes that limits need to be stated before every dare.
Also, you have stated publicly to petknight that you do not own him, and that he is free to make his own decisions about things.
When the idea of having a T or D came up that evening he and I were chatting, I would have either approached you first, or asked him to ask you if he could, before saying "the task is yours!" (or whatever it was I said), if you had not made that statement.
So there is the reason for that.
~more~
Tue 01:27:22 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . *listening*
Tue 01:33:05 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . As to the actual night of the T or D, as I said, ribaldry does commonly ensue in T or D. I don't think there has ever been a T or D with some of that over the top stuff happening. It is a game being played by passionate people who play as hard as they do anything else. We are generally a group of people with open ideas about sexuality and playful interactions.
Neither encroachment nor "hitting up" is meant in those kinds of interactions. In fact, it is a bit like a timeout environment. I think I might have actually said something along those lines to petknight, in fact. It is a safe environment in which to play and have fun in ways that might not be appropriate in the Dungeon proper.
Having said all that, I can understand your reactions, especially as one being new to this.
All I can say to that is, your reactions were your own, and not because of petknight. I personally don't feel he had anything to apologize for, because your feelings were based on your own perceptions, not on the meaning of what was actually happening.
So there is that. ~s~
Tue 01:38:40 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . Yah...I didn't ask You for an apology...My relationship is with petknight not You...Ppeople are gunna say and do what Tthey say and do...to Me..to petknight..to Wwhoever Tthey wanna say stuff too...it's in how I or petknight react to such that concerns Me...and that is what petknight and I discussed.
Tue 01:40:44 AM EDT Jun 14 Chaotic*Desires . . . *Steps in*
Tue 01:40:53 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . Well, if you did feel that I had overstepped, certainly you should have approached me. ~s~ Just like with the comments you felt were upsetting petknight during his interaction with Glory, the direct approach is ~always~ best.
If I felt someone overstepped things with my submissive, hell yeah I'd be approaching them about it as soon as humanly possible.
Those things should not be left to fester and affect other things.
Tue 01:41:45 AM EDT Jun 14 Chaotic*Desires . . . *Takes a seat to see what's being duscussed*
Tue 01:41:55 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . *lil nod seeing Chaos enter*
Tue 01:42:58 AM EDT Jun 14 Chaotic*Desires . . . *Lights a smoke*
Tue 01:45:25 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . Well, that is the attitude that makes what should be an open, cooperative, sharing community into a closed society filled with suspicion and paranoia. That is what I am hoping to dispel, starting with this conversation specifically, and these timeouts in general.
Tue 01:45:30 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . *listening to Alexandra*
well Alexandra...as I said...and as You pointed out...petknight isn't My offical submissive...but yes...he is My bottom...and yes...that carries responsibility...and yes...I am addressing My issue with You at the earliest possible moment I had. *soft smile*
Tue 01:47:41 AM EDT Jun 14 Chaotic*Desires . . . *thinks about this subject and how I am pleased to see one finally bring up how she dies not like her pet pestered bu some of the Dominants...
Flicks ashes into the ashtray near Me*
Tue 01:50:24 AM EDT Jun 14 Chaotic*Desires . . . tzigane hood you went to Alexandra. . Hopefully the situation is cleated now.
I had noticed your pet being the center of poking these days. I nearly said something yesterday and hoped he would go to You if it were an issue
Tue 01:50:33 AM EDT Jun 14 Chaotic*Desires . . . Hood/good
Tue 01:51:34 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . Only because I initiated this conversation and asked you about it, Tzigane. ~s~
Alright, so finally, we come the the last part of this.
Your one public post to petknight, which, by your own description, was cold and aloof. Why put such a post in public? You say you were communicating and beginning the process of resolving issues in red. Why make such a post so out of context with what you describe was going on in red, the only post you make to him in public? Why make it at all?
Also, if you knew you could not be around for your bottom long enough to care for him after his interaction, it might have been wiser to hold the interaction until you could.
Not a good idea to leave a new bottom that you know has trepidations, alone in the hands of someone he's never scened with before, however respected and trusted.
Tue 01:52:06 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . *warm smile to Chaos*
I appreciate you noticing and being willing to point out when You see something amiss in the Ccommunity, Chaos.
Tue 01:53:04 AM EDT Jun 14 Chaotic*Desires . . . *looks to Alexandra* are You considering Mentoring tzigane ? Or do You always ask so many questions about why One does or says something g with Their bottom?
Tue 01:54:21 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . I thought you didn't wish interaction between us, Chaotic Desires? Have you changed your mind on that?
Tue 01:55:02 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . *listening...thinking*
Tue 01:55:06 AM EDT Jun 14 Chaotic*Desires . . . This is a room of discussion. If You choose not to answer so be it
Tue 01:55:48 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . But in any case, to be polite and answer your question, Tzigane and I have already addressed that issue. This is not an attempt at mentoring, but a single example of being mature adults discussing issues in an open, cooperative community.
I hope it can be an example set to all.
Tue 01:56:47 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . And also, under the tenets of Timeout, rather than an open forum where those specific protections do not exist.
Tue 01:58:18 AM EDT Jun 14 Chaotic*Desires . . . tzigane it seems a funny dejavu. you got the poking and prodding when you first were My secretary. I had to defend Uus many times.
I'm not sure fully of what happened. But you learned. ..you voiced...you move on
I do think you need help into your Top skin, just don't forget what Wwe had to go thru begore it mellowed and all was at ease and out if the spotlight.
Tue 02:00:04 AM EDT Jun 14 Chaotic*Desires . . . *looked towards Akexandra*
Fair enough. It just seems You are pressing at everything You can. she addressed the issue which was You and Your interaction with and about her bottom
So the conversation must be done and over without You peeling apart what and why she did something with her bottom
Tue 02:00:17 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . Alexandra...honestly...and I stated this before...I see and have reflected on all this situation ad nausem..both personally...with my pet...and with a few close Ffriends of mine...and yah...what it boils down to is this...coud things have been handled better...yes...did I learn...yes...is the pet ok...yes.
do I wish that You and and Few Others in The D had approached Me before deciding to publicly play judge and jury on My actions with My pet...yes. Do I wish Oothers to stop verbally teasing My pet for his own well-being...yes. Do I hope in the future this will be an example to Oothers on how to conduct Tthemselves and Ttheir relationships in the future...yes.
Tue 02:01:59 AM EDT Jun 14 Chaotic*Desires . . . Tends to rt brirfly
Tue 02:02:31 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . Chaotic Desires, the point here is that I am not the only one with this questions about a situation that was left with an unclear outcome. There was concern expressed by a few, which is what this has come up.
It is about me, specifically, nor is it only about this issue. It is about how any issue can be resolved as a community, as I said already.
Tue 02:02:59 AM EDT Jun 14 Chaotic*Desires . . . Settles
Tue 02:04:09 AM EDT Jun 14 Chaotic*Desires . . . Yes I seen yesterday when it was brought up by the DM. I was ghosting after taking a shower.
I guess it's her choice to answer or not. Not the "community" to press
Tue 02:07:02 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . All I am suggesting, Tzigane, is that you should feel free to address things when they happen. You were there when you thought what was being said was upsetting petknight. I suggest the ones making the comments could have been addressed directly.
You thought I had overstepped. I give the reasons why I acted as I did (and btw, there was nothing formal in the conversation, it was very casual and not at all meant as a "command" or any such thing).
You were upset about the activities in the T or D. I explained the kind of spirit that T or D is played historically to give it some context.
This conversation, for the umpteenth time, is simply meant as an example of how issues can be discussed in a mature, non-offensive, non-defensive way.
A situation was left with several public impressions. At least someone is trying to get to the truth. I thought you would appreciate that.
Tue 02:07:30 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . *hearing Chaos*
yah...many times with My pet I have reflected on Oour situation, Chaos...the situation I shared with You...it's seems unfair in the D the way some relationships are supported and instantly approved of by the Ccommunity and other relationships experience the opposite reaction...I wonder why that is. regardless...thank You for the reminder...the relationship is really about the Ttwo in it...and though the Ccommunity has a responsibility to comment or question after the well-being of Aanother...outright deciding and publicly decrying a relationship without the full story is unfair and harmful to the Ccommunity...a different Person would have walked away from the Ccommunity because of what was said today in The D about Ttheir relationship...and that hurts the Ccommunity...to drive Ppeople away based on incomplete information and judgements made without the full story.
Tue 02:07:51 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . If you guys want the community you keep paying lip service to, at least let your actions reflect it, and not become defensive against it when it is put into play.
Good heavens.
Tue 02:09:46 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . Wow. ~chuckles and shakes head~
Tue 02:10:33 AM EDT Jun 14 Alexandra . . . Alright, I think we are at an end here, and nothing further to be said.
Goodnight, and thank you for participating in this attempt at setting an example, Tzigane.
~exits~
Tue 02:10:41 AM EDT Jun 14 Chaotic*Desires . . . I agree she should have addressed it the first time he said something. I'm sure with the bull she has dealt with in the past it was a bit intimidating. But that is something that needs to be dealt with if she is no longer My submissive but a Top of the D.
Seems it's all sorted now though
*shrugs*
Tue 02:11:27 AM EDT Jun 14 Chaotic*Desires . . . I'll be helping her along. Any issues she will have a better I sight how to deal with it and People of this Castle
Be well Alexandra
Tue 02:13:12 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . and yes Alexandra..I do appreciate the search for the truth that is the heart of this discussion...but do You also understand how such a truth should of perhaps been sought out by You before You began making assumptions and publicly judging Me and the pet?
Tue 02:15:06 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . *turning to Chaos*
thank You. You help is appreciated and valued much, Chaos. *respectful nod*
Tue 02:15:51 AM EDT Jun 14 Chaotic*Desires . . . Wwe will set guidelines privately for Me assisting you. I am not a s will NOT be your Dominant. But I'll be damned if what was Mine will be made a fool
Tue 02:18:26 AM EDT Jun 14 Chaotic*Desires . . . I need to tend to some things rt. I will talk with you soon
Tue 02:18:41 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . Thank You, Chaos. I understand.
Tue 02:20:24 AM EDT Jun 14 Chaotic*Desires . . . Spies a caterpillar and takes it out to put in the garden as I leave
Tue 02:20:55 AM EDT Jun 14 Tzigane . . . *lil grin to spork*
*respectful nod to Chaos*
blessed night.
| •HOME | •CHAT | •FORUMS | •VILLAGE | •NEWS | •ARCHIVES | •JOIN | •T.O.S | •PRIVACY | •CONTACT | •HELP |
Click Here for Help Or return to the Beauty's Castle main page.
Copyright ©1998- Sleeping Beauty Publications Ltd.