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“TimeOut is a Safe place where dominants and submissives(both m&f) can discuss ‘VT’ and ‘RT’ D/s topics.”
Mon 10:01:36 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . *entering the space…starting off a topic for tonight solo until little ella can make it in in about 30 mins*
For tonight’s topic…and exploration of the popular acronyms used in modern day BDSM exchanges.
SSC- safe sane consensual
RACK- risk aware consensual kink
PRICK- personally responsible informed consensual kink
CCC- committed compassionate consent
Mon 10:06:40 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . In an exploration of the different acronyms it seems SSC was the standard "go to" to describe the exchanges that take place in BDSM interactions as being consensual and with and eye to the D-type being safe and sane in respect to the s-type...however...this evolved over time into RISK...because in the history I was able to find...it acknowledged that there is an element in all play that is risky...and it also gives the s-type some responsibility for their part in the exchange....that is to be aware of the risk and be in consent still.
Mon 10:06:56 PM EDT Jun 20 petknight . . . *looks in*
Mon 10:09:21 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . *friendly nod*
hello petknight...I started off the topic...ella has an rt obligation and will be along in a bit...feel free to add in or ask questions if you like.
Mon 10:10:45 PM EDT Jun 20 petknight . . . *nods* err... so what does RISK stand for?
Mon 10:11:17 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . peeks in as well...
Mon 10:13:47 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . RISK it seems held on for a long time as the most popular acronym to use according to what I could find, but not Eeveryone was content...so rather recently it evolved into PRICK...which encompasses the idea that there is risk...and Eeach party involved in the risk is informed, consenting, and taking responsibility for Ttheir choice to participate in a known risky situation....a component Ssome apparently felt was not included in the "RISK" acronym.
Mon 10:14:47 PM EDT Jun 20 petknight . . . but what did the acronym stand for?
Mon 10:15:02 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . *warm smile*
welcome geisha.
asorry that was a typo...thrice...it was supposed to be RACK...not RISK. *lil flush*
Mon 10:15:21 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . risk aware consensual kink=RACK
Mon 10:15:50 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . hello Tzigane...may she call you Ma'am?
Mon 10:16:59 PM EDT Jun 20 petknight . . . ah.. thank you
Mon 10:17:14 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . hello Alexandra : )
Mon 10:17:39 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . no I would rather just be called by My name...thanks geisha.
so I'm curious...you have a collar now, geisha...does Your Master chose to employ one of these acronyms when Yyou Ttwo interact?
Mon 10:19:30 PM EDT Jun 20 Alexandra . . . ~small interjection~
The main reason for RACK is that what might seem safe and sane to some, may not for others.
So the idea is, as long as participants are aware of the risks and sufficiently informed about them, and consent under that awareness, that is more thorough and accurate than SSC, which seems limited.
The last two... are new to me, but I found an article mentioning them. Both sound much like the first two but with different words.
Mon 10:19:48 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . W/we actually have O/our own words for it....sane submission
Mon 10:21:30 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . W/we have agreed that a collar is more than a symbol and she belongs to Master...but He is very proactive in exploring her thoughts, but keeping her on a uphill climb towards His goals for her
Mon 10:21:46 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . and just to finish the lil bit of info I was able to gather up on the subject...the latest acronym out there these days is CCC...it encompasses and idea for Ssome that the previous RACK and PRICK did not...the idea that in an interaction real Ppeople...and real feelings are involved...and that the emotional well-being of Tthose in an interaction also needs to be attended to...hence CCC...compassionate being the new ideological addition to the previous acronyms while still attempting to transmit a message of informed and consensual activities.
Mon 10:23:16 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . hello Alexandra. nice to see You.
and yes...RACK does seem to have come about specifically as a way to address the concerns of the risk factor involved in BDSM interactions.
Mon 10:24:21 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . *listening to geisha*
sane submission...I like the way that sounds...can you explain a lil more what that means to you and your Master, geisha?
Mon 10:25:42 PM EDT Jun 20 Alexandra . . . It didn't 'seem to'. It did.
Excuse me... brb
Mon 10:26:25 PM EDT Jun 20 heather{JT} . . . Daddy and I follow RACK..PRICK just sounds a hipster version of RACK to me..*g*
Mon 10:27:47 PM EDT Jun 20 petknight . . . good eve heather
Mon 10:28:34 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . well there are certain things that she knows will not be asked of her under any condition, whereas there are other things that she knows she is eventually expected to achieve. she knows what those things are and agreed to it before becoming His property...so she knows what is expected of her and what she will never be told to do
Mon 10:29:24 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . hello heather...*warm smile*
yah..I personally don't like the way PRICK sounds...that actual word being used as an acronym to describe the safety and sanity and informed state of an interaction I'm in...yah no...*lil nose wrinkle*
why do you and your Daddy follow RACK, heather...as opposed to SSC or CCC or whatever else?
Mon 10:29:54 PM EDT Jun 20 heather{JT} . . . no need to greet me room to room, petknight ~wink~
Mon 10:31:28 PM EDT Jun 20 heather{JT} . . . simply put, Tzigane...we indulge in play both verbally and physically that others might see as 'out there'...extreme..hence *risk aware*...*consensual kink*.....~s~
Mon 10:33:31 PM EDT Jun 20 heather{JT} . . . sounds like you enjoyed some great negotiation talks and real getting to know you before putting on that collar, geisha....that's awesome...I really applaud that....*s*..Daddy and I talked for four months..hours and hours of talking about what each of us like, don't like, limits, expectations....I knew going in it might get to a place where he'd push even one of my hardest limits..
Mon 10:34:00 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . *listening to geisha*
so it sounds like you and your Master have agreed to interact in a way that suits where you are now...while also encouraging your further growth. nice, geisha.
and yah, I think it helpful to have standardized acronyms out there to guide and define BDSM interactions...but I also understand that what suits an individual relationship and the Ppeople in it is a way to travel this path too, while perhaps relying on the standard...but adapting it to suit...any thoughts on that?
Mon 10:35:31 PM EDT Jun 20 Alexandra . . . The idea of moving from SSC to RACK also involves avoiding words that could be subjective, such as safe and sane. The one constant is consent.
Mon 10:36:12 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . thank you heather...it does not mean there will not be challenges...there are things that she has to learn to do and think that are very challenging...but she knows she will never be asked to do anything against the law or other hard limits...Master has been very much a Man of his word
Mon 10:38:22 PM EDT Jun 20 heather{JT} . . . I'd question it if there weren't challenges, geisha ~ss~....all relationships must face challenges....and it's how you respond to those challenges that shape where everything goes..good or bad....I'm so glad you found someone you can trust...*s*
Mon 10:38:24 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . *hearing heather*
yah...communication..really getting to understand and know Oone is awesome...but then there are also those situations that are T/b...and I would think in those situations...and what I have experienced in those situations...is that using a tried and true standard in the lifestyle, like SSC...or RACK....is the way to go.
Mon 10:39:06 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . as an example she is now required to be very open and naked with those who are Dom and to a lesser extent sub. it is why she admitted to loving humiliation so easily...of course that only goes to vt...Master has already said He will not share rt...she loves when He gets possessive
Mon 10:39:53 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . *listening to geisha...warm smile*
Mon 10:40:02 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . thank you heather...it makes her happy too :)
Mon 10:41:14 PM EDT Jun 20 little ella . . . *slinks in, late to the party.. smiling to everyone and catching up..*
Mon 10:41:45 PM EDT Jun 20 petknight . . . welcome ella
Mon 10:42:09 PM EDT Jun 20 heather{JT} . . . ~ducks out to check the moon out with'er girl~~ bb
Mon 10:42:14 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . hello ella! :)
Mon 10:43:28 PM EDT Jun 20 silk-n-steele^ . . . Steps in...
Mon 10:43:32 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . in reseraching this topic I came across another acronym used in the lifestyle...a rather newer one..
BORK- balls out reckless kink
Aanyone here ever hear of it...have any thoughts on it...basically it is what it sounds like...just crazy no holds barred, no rules, kink.
Mon 10:44:08 PM EDT Jun 20 petknight . . . welcome back ms steele
Mon 10:44:18 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . welcome ellabella and silk~n~steele...jump on in. *warm smile*
Mon 10:44:24 PM EDT Jun 20 silk-n-steele^ . . . Smiles..thanks petknight
Mon 10:44:31 PM EDT Jun 20 petknight . . . BORK sounds... increibly reckless and irresponsible
Mon 10:44:52 PM EDT Jun 20 silk-n-steele^ . . . Work has me distracted..just in to watch and read..
Mon 10:45:42 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . I agree petknight...so what acronym do you feel suits how you would like to interact with Aanother?
Mon 10:46:38 PM EDT Jun 20 Alexandra . . . ~bursts out a laugh~ That has been around forever. You don't need an acronym for it, although the acronym itself kind of detracts from the gravity of the actual thing.
People have been reckless about what they do and how they do it since there have been people.
One of the reasons the BDSM communities try as much as possible to facilitate education and a system of the more experienced helping new ones to understand how things work.
Mon 10:47:31 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . good points, Alexandra. *lil grin*
Mon 10:47:39 PM EDT Jun 20 little ella . . . so.. the way i see it.. SSC is the standard... RACK is for when there might be some ambiguity about SSC, like someone said about avoiding the hidden bits of understanding when it comes to subjectivity.. PRICK sounds like.. you know someone might not be safe or sane, but there is informed consent... and CCC.... ok i'm not so sure about CCC..
Mon 10:47:55 PM EDT Jun 20 petknight . . . i never was much for acronyms really, though i supose the simple staight forwardness of CCC is fine
Mon 10:49:41 PM EDT Jun 20 petknight . . . err scc i meant
Mon 10:49:55 PM EDT Jun 20 little ella . . . BORK... it seems almost ironic to have an official name in a world where there is so much weight of responsibility and awareness..
Mon 10:50:21 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . for what reading i was able to find on the subject...CCC seems to be about encompassing the idea that being emotionally aware and in tune with the Oother(s) in an interaction is being given attention...not just the physical safety...or the mental/willful consent...but like how the actual Pperson is doing amidst the informed consensual interaction as it progresses, ella.
Mon 10:50:22 PM EDT Jun 20 Alexandra . . . And tenets like SSC and RACK are actually... well, just that. Tenets... a principle or philosophy that upholds what we do and how we do it. It's not something to "use" or say "I'm this or I'm that".
So that also is part of education. One learns what those principles actually mean, then choose or not choose to live by it.
Mon 10:51:28 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . yah...*laffin*...if One said to Me "hey let's go BORK with this scene"...I would be all like..."hell to the no!"
Mon 10:53:01 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . *listening to Alexandra...just nodding*
Mon 10:53:36 PM EDT Jun 20 silk-n-steele^ . . . Good info thank you Alexandra...makes sense
Mon 10:54:18 PM EDT Jun 20 heather{JT} . . . I wouldn't play with anyone who didn't just naturally care about me...the person...was doing...within the play..
guess I'm old fashioned..don't fix what's not broken..or convolute for the sake of convolution....~g~ these new ones seem like hand holding..
and bork is just idiotic....
Mon 10:54:33 PM EDT Jun 20 little ella . . . *nods gently..* that makes sense, Princess..
in all honesty, for me personally.. i only see value in these acronyms in the context of planned scening or in the first stages of getting to know One... i'm not sure how relevant or regularly referred to the tenets would be in an established relationship where the two already know and understand each other.. am i wrong...?
Mon 10:55:08 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . *listening to heather...soft smile*
Mon 10:56:07 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . perhaps she is naive...but she feels BORK would not be about developing the relationship between Dom and the sub...the trust
Mon 10:56:15 PM EDT Jun 20 silk-n-steele^ . . . Waves to all as I check out due to work
Mon 10:57:08 PM EDT Jun 20 Alexandra . . . It's as if, in order for something to even exist, or be talked about, or be aware of... it needs an acronym. ~chuckle~
SSC and RACK came about as simple, easily remembered words that help people to understand what they're doing, and what their responsibilities in it are.
Once that becomes ingrained, being responsible under those principles become second nature... it becomes part of who you are and how you live. They're not just some "rule" or "protocol" outside of yourself.
Mon 10:57:18 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . goodnight silk-n-steele!
Mon 10:57:31 PM EDT Jun 20 petknight . . . they seem useful to teach basic ideas... but are no replacemtn for honest straight forward and thorough communication
Mon 10:57:41 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . i agree with you, bella...seems the acronyms are a conversation starter...a way to define or describe Oone's approach to interaction...but once Oone is established and in it with Aanother...yah...I don't really see the acronyms as being a necessary reference point for every interaction....perhaps a point to re-visit if necessary...but yah...not a needed part of every interaction.
Mon 10:58:27 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . she has learned a great deal about herself and her Master by understanding what she has consented to and why it is important
Mon 10:59:29 PM EDT Jun 20 heather{JT} . . . ~listening and nodding....................and also wishing ms. bits a good night~
Mon 10:59:42 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . and yes, geisha...I agree with you...BORK seems a more destructive than constructive philosophy.
*soft smile hearing the varied Vvoices expressing basically the same idea in regards to the usefulness of acronyms*
Mon 11:00:37 PM EDT Jun 20 Alexandra . . . ~smiles at collared geisha~ Exactly so.
They are not just snappy catch-phrases that define anything outside of ourselves. As with so many things, it's a matter of learning and understanding over time.
Mon 11:04:53 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . have Aany in here heard of non-consensual consent?
Mon 11:05:57 PM EDT Jun 20 little ella . . . *listening to the others..* has anyone here ever cut off interaction with another because of something that clouded their confidence in the person's reflection of SSC? or, more bluntly.. has anyone considered playing with another and then realised they were bonkers..?
Mon 11:06:14 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . it sounds like silent consent...or obeying to please whether she wants to or not....
Mon 11:06:39 PM EDT Jun 20 petknight . . . the illusion of a nonconsent situation
Mon 11:06:39 PM EDT Jun 20 heather{JT} . . . basically geared towards takedowns, you mean?
Mon 11:06:40 PM EDT Jun 20 Alexandra . . . It's actually consensual non-consent. That's a fairly common one ~nods~ Used most often in connection with takedowns.
Mon 11:07:43 PM EDT Jun 20 little ella . . . *still very badly wants to see a takedown..*
Mon 11:07:52 PM EDT Jun 20 heather{JT} . . . yes, ella...
people...the smart sociopath types....are great at playing a part.......they're very convincing for a time.....or to the naive..... and they leave real destruction behind in those they play.....
Mon 11:08:01 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . she does not know how to say this, but making the display of obedience and submission more difficult or more humiliating seems to be a way of making the sub grow in her submission, but not at the cost of her trust
Mon 11:08:03 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . *lil grin hearing ella's question*
yah..I was in a vt scene with One once and I bowed out...cuz in My estimation...the One was bonkers. I was respectful...clear...and I left the scene after explaining Myself. never interacted with that One again.
Mon 11:08:19 PM EDT Jun 20 heather{JT} . . . ~loves'em~
Mon 11:08:42 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . what is a takedown?
Mon 11:09:46 PM EDT Jun 20 Alexandra . . . Very common in the VT world, actually. Those encounters certainly exist in RT, but are more easily revealed than in VT.
I've seen people play their persona for years in here before being found out.
Mon 11:10:37 PM EDT Jun 20 *BlackLion* . . . Talk later pet bye for now......hugs
Mon 11:10:48 PM EDT Jun 20 heather{JT} . . . a take down is when say..Daddy lets me come full on at him, geisha....and He ends up using superior strength and verbal spears to..."take me down"..........it can be quite brutal...
it can be all verbal...all physical...a mix..........just depends..
Mon 11:11:17 PM EDT Jun 20 silk-n-steele^ . . . Till soon Master
Mon 11:11:50 PM EDT Jun 20 Alexandra . . . ~chuckles and waves to BlackLion and miss steele~
Mon 11:12:53 PM EDT Jun 20 silk-n-steele^ . . . So let me thing here...that would be like...giving consent...to do something ahead of time?
Mon 11:13:13 PM EDT Jun 20 little ella . . . *listening while cursing rt for restricting my responses..*
Mon 11:14:40 PM EDT Jun 20 Alexandra . . . Something like that, miss steele... you consent for... at some point, something "non-consensual" to happen with someone.
In many D/s relationship, the submissive's actual submission and collar represents that consent.
Mon 11:15:13 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . *hearing Alexandra...giving a lil nod*
here in My parts of the world it called non-consensual consent. interesting the way different regions have similar but slightly different words for the same idea. although the one time I encountered it...it was not in a take-down scene...it was explained to Me that I was agreeing to whatever might happen in the interaction...involved only the knowledge that whatever transpired I wouldn't know about it beforehand...and that the only thing that would stop the scene was the One's decision to stop it...yah...not a situation I would ever recommend for a newer interaction between Ttwo. However, between established and experienced Ppartners, I can imagine it would be something to explore.
Mon 11:16:09 PM EDT Jun 20 heather{JT} . . . right............Daddy can take me down at any time..in any way..............because I gave my consent long ago to such things....there's no need to ask me if I'm okay with it.....
but others might just work out an agreement of some sort..
Mon 11:17:00 PM EDT Jun 20 silk-n-steele^ . . . So say Alexandra that a take down was planned...you know the who..but that is about it...and you consent not knowing when how or what will happen...since it would not be BL doing it I have consented to submit to You at sometime even if You have to take such from me in a takedown scene?
Mon 11:20:58 PM EDT Jun 20 Alexandra . . . ~nods to silknsteele~ Yes, but at the same time, in our particular situation, I've withdrawn that, so it won't happen.
But generally, yes. ~nods~ That's more or less the idea.
I've seen in here... where there was such an arrangement, and the dominant person used a different handle, so the submissive didn't even know it was him at first. She knew him, of course, and so it didn't take long for it to register, but the fact that he used a different handle helped to put her more completely into the mindset of the "non-consent".
Mon 11:21:58 PM EDT Jun 20 petknight . . . interesting... certainly sounds exciting
Mon 11:22:02 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . *listening*
Mon 11:23:22 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . if that is consensual non-consent then she has had the experience...she was told she would have to achieve one of her goals log before her deadline...it was something she was dreading....as it turned out it was not as bad as she thought and was glad she did it...but it was still a shock...but it was not on the "never" list and Master seemed to know it was time to advance in her submission
Mon 11:24:05 PM EDT Jun 20 Alexandra . . . You need to have such real and deep trust for that situation. ~nods to heather~ Unconditional trust, in fact. That's not an easy thing to come by, however deep the ~love~ might be.
Mon 11:25:26 PM EDT Jun 20 silk-n-steele^ . . . Tzigane don't take this the wrong way but to me non consentual consent has me thinking the one knocks the other out...so I think...I am with you so that gives you the right to smack me around...
Mon 11:25:48 PM EDT Jun 20 Alexandra . . . Ah. ~nods hearing collared geisha~ So you had a task with an agreed deadline, then without your explicit consent, the deadline was moved up and you had no choice? Yep, that sounds like a version of that. ~g~
Mon 11:27:05 PM EDT Jun 20 Alexandra . . . ~grins at petknight~ I'd pay to watch you in a takedown.
Mon 11:27:27 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . *nodding hearing silk~n~steele*
yep...and that is about what happened...again...not a situation I would ever recommend or like to find Myself in. and yah...no offense taken. *lil smile*
Mon 11:27:58 PM EDT Jun 20 silk-n-steele^ . . . Blushes...yes You had and I knew that and was just using You as an example. ..not bringing it out or thinking otherwise. .just trying to grasp...
Nodding I like that idea..the different handle...it would indeed add to it...and I would think have me fight back all the harder....
Mon 11:28:05 PM EDT Jun 20 Tzigane . . . *shifting My eyes to the clock*
well Ffolks...it's about that time for Me that I must bow out for a bit...head to My rt...thank You for another interesting conversation tonight. *warm smile...well wishes to Aall...and out*
Mon 11:28:16 PM EDT Jun 20 heather{JT} . . . agreed.... ~nods t'Snook~
Mon 11:29:32 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . yes Alexandra...it was Master's decision...but it was something we long ago agreed that he had the the right to demand...it was just not something that she was expecting...
Mon 11:30:15 PM EDT Jun 20 Alexandra . . . Then yes, collared geisha. ~s~ That would be an example of consensual non-consent.
Mon 11:30:22 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . goodbye Tzigane thank you for a wonderful talk! : )
Mon 11:32:32 PM EDT Jun 20 silk-n-steele^ . . . Reading back...didn't chally talk of that same thing happening to her Tzigane? The no sage word no say thing?
Mon 11:33:56 PM EDT Jun 20 Alexandra . . . I'll put this put there even though Tzigane has left.
"Non-consensual consent" seems to translate to "no means yes", and this is underlined by the situation Tzigane described.
As she said, not a situation anyone should get into. And that "no means yes" translation, however much of a kink "terminology" it might be out where she is, should not be taken lightly. It is almost always a recipe for disaster, if put into the wrong hands.
~PSA ended~
Mon 11:38:27 PM EDT Jun 20 petknight . . . well thank you all for the discussion
Mon 11:39:17 PM EDT Jun 20 collared-geisha . . . yes absolutely..
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