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Monday, May 9, 2016

Mon 09:59:09 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . *watches the clock with a tiny smile..*

Mon 10:00:14 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . welcome to O/our third consecutive Time Out gathering! the energy this room has been inspiring, not just in discussion here but in the further conversations tumbling from here and out into our usual home, is wonderful. just as in the past two weeks, Tzigane will be O/our hostess, and i will be taking her lead. please remember that we are here only to help the gives and takes flow more efficiently. we are just as eager as ever to have a healthy discussion with lots of opinion and information, laced as always with respect for all involved.. as well as this, like always again, nothing shared in Time Out is to travel and used against A/any speaker anywhere else.. this is a safe place.

Mon 10:01:11 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . within these walls, W/we're all encouraged to ask O/our questions, give O/our thoughts, and learn from each other. the best way for U/us to take full advantage is to keep O/our physical expressions to a minimum and really just settle in with an open mind and an open willingness to share with each other. it was mentioned through the week that Time Out transcripts are now available in the castle archives.. please ask a castle staff member for more specific details on that.

Mon 10:02:15 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . The topic chosen for tonight is:

*Taboos within BDSM*

Time Out is home for this discussion from now, until 11.30pm castle time. Tzigane will open the conversation and then please, let's talk!

Mon 10:05:27 PM EDT May 9 tzigane . . . *warm smile*

thank you, ella...nice job with the intro.

so...*looking around*
seems so far it is just you and i...no matter.

i brought some ideas to bounce around on tonight's topic....

first off...i wanted to start with the question...what is a taboo in BDSM...i mean BDSM in itself is a taboo in mainstream culture...so it's a real knock in the head to me to imagine within a defined taboo culture that there would be taboos...right?

Mon 10:07:19 PM EDT May 9 *lapknight* . . . *settles on to listen*

Mon 10:08:35 PM EDT May 9 tzigane . . . welcome lapknight. *warm smile*

Mon 10:10:53 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . i think that's what makes this topic so interesting because... in the world of norms and beige, there's a general consensus for what taboos are... most people will name the same however many things... but in our world, it feels like maybe taboos are more subjective? based on our own personal limits, maybe? what one might say is taboo, another may be exercising the act as a regular ritual of some sort.. that's what makes us such interesting people *smiles..* but yeah, it's a funny thing to wrap your head around.. i'm interested to know what people... You.... categorise as taboo in BDSM..?

Mon 10:12:12 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . *smiles to the boy..*

Mon 10:14:46 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . oh *squeezing this in* i think, even if it doesn't really need to be said, I'll just put it out there.. this particular discussion shouldn't be seen as an airing of judgement.. we all have our kinks and we all love our kinks.. *smiles* that's all.

Mon 10:15:15 PM EDT May 9 tzigane . . . oh me, ella? i really try to approach every lil aspect i lean of i BDSM with an open mind...you know there is that old cliche...you kink is not my kink and that's ok....but yah...despite that approach i always aim to take...there are those areas of play i approach with wariness...like breath play, edge play...and fetishes related specifically to watersports and scat play.

not that i think those forms of play are off limits...just that ii want to know that if i am going to be engaging in such games that there are safety protocols discussed and understood between myself and Another.

how about you, ellabella? do you have taboos in the lifestyle?

Mon 10:16:52 PM EDT May 9 tzigane . . . *nodding lots in response to ella's post*

yep. *re-iterating*...your kink may not be my kink...and that's ok.

Mon 10:18:39 PM EDT May 9 *lapknight* . . . taboos in BDSM... betrayel of privacy, changing community rules to suit one's own purposes, true nonconsent

Mon 10:21:49 PM EDT May 9 tzigane . . . oh lapknight, those are good areas to discuss. they are certainly areas to not tresspass on in my opinion....but are they really taboos? *thinking hard*

*posting this*

ta·boo
təˈbo͞o,taˈbo͞o/
noun
noun: taboo; plural noun: taboos; noun: tabu; plural noun: tabus

1.
a social or religious custom prohibiting or forbidding discussion of a particular practice or forbidding association with a particular person, place, or thing.
synonyms: prohibition, proscription, veto, interdiction, interdict, ban, restriction
"the taboo against healing on the Sabbath"
a social practice that is prohibited or restricted.
"speaking about sex is a taboo in his country"

adjective
adjective: taboo; adjective: tabu

1.
prohibited or restricted by social custom.
"sex was a taboo subject"
synonyms: forbidden, prohibited, banned, proscribed, interdicted, outlawed, illegal, illicit, unlawful, restricted, off limits; More
unmentionable, unspeakable, unutterable, unsayable, ineffable;
rude, impolite
"taboo subjects"
antonyms: acceptable
designated as sacred and prohibited.
"the burial ground was seen as a taboo place"

verb verb: taboo; 3rd person present: taboos; past tense: tabooed; past participle: tabooed; gerund or present participle: tabooing; verb: tabu; 3rd person present: tabus; past tense: tabued; past participle: tabued; gerund or present participle: tabuing 1. place under prohibition. "traditional societies taboo female handling of food during this period"

Mon 10:24:27 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . i think any and all exchanges in 'the lifestyle' should be approached with a certain level of weariness to some degree.. but yeah, seeing as the things that would first come to mind as taboo here are mostly things that require a higher level of attention (medical/hygienic), there's definitely a greater sense of consideration needed.. especially if it's the early stages of experimentation...
i would guess the same for taboos.. breath... blood... water sports.. scat... littles... some of those things (obviously) i'm into... one is a limit. so that makes me think... the ones that i'm into... when i am experiencing them... i never feel like it's taboo.. that's not a part of it's effect... it just feels.. right... so i wonder.. do we base our judgement on taboos based on what we are or aren't open to? maybe... i think i do..

Mon 10:26:11 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . i think it's interesting that the word 'sacred' is a part of the definition...

Mon 10:28:00 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . *picking up true non consent from lapknight's post* hunt downs... rape scenes... i think that's taboo for a lot of people.. consensually

Mon 10:34:12 PM EDT May 9 plain ole fire . . . *enters quietly*

Mon 10:34:27 PM EDT May 9 tzigane . . . *listening to ellabella*

your words bring to mind a recent rt interaction i had, bella. i was sitting around the firepit at my local rt dungeon....talking to a man that was new to the lifestyle...he was actually on his first visit to the dungeon...and he wanted to share his kinks with me...so i listened...he got this glint in his eye as he talked....it got brighter and fiercer as he talked more and more about how he enjoys pining one down, slapping their face until their jaw rattles, and then wrapping his hands around their neck while he cusses them out, and he chokes one until they pass out and then he fucks them...and how hot that is. i nodded and listened and my mind was spinning...i suggested to him he look into the safety behind breath play...and that he look into consensual and communication practices before moving forward with his fantasies...but yah...in my mind...i was like...HELL NO...that's not safe...that's not ok...that wasn't even taboo...that was just plain unsafe. i was quietly surprised at my own reaction...and yah. i don't think breath play is taboo...but unsafe practices...yah...that's taboo in my book...which goes back to lapknight's comment about taboo. and touches on your comment too, bella...to another, what that man shared with me may very well have sounded hawt...right?

and what about the practice of non-consensual consent play...is that taboo?

Mon 10:35:19 PM EDT May 9 tzigane . . . welcome fire, feel free to pipe in. *warm smile*

Mon 10:36:19 PM EDT May 9 plain ole fire . . . greetings tzigane.
Am sussing out the intent of the present conversation... will speak when find something to say. *soft smile*

Mon 10:37:11 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . welcome, plain ole fire.. *smiles..*

Mon 10:37:37 PM EDT May 9 plain ole fire . . . greetings ella *soft smile*

Mon 10:38:06 PM EDT May 9 *lapknight* . . . *offers a respectful nod to fire*

Mon 10:38:34 PM EDT May 9 plain ole fire . . . greetings lapknight

Mon 10:41:04 PM EDT May 9 plain ole fire . . . Guess i'm at issue with the approach of utilizing the term "taboo"........ in context to bdsm interactions.

Taboo is a vanilla term. *slight grin*

Now is something unwise to participate in within the bdsm community... That is an entirely different of approaching the dangerous and irresponsible behaviors some new folks might associate with the lifestyle as a whole. Out of their ignorance.

Mon 10:41:08 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . i'm not surprised at your reaction, mine would have been the same. to me that's not breath play, to me that's not even BDSM.. it sounds like a very angry man that (knowing he's new to the lifestyle) may be uneducated with all the safety stuff like you said, and is dangerous.. but yeah, to some maybe that view is extreme and they do think it's... hawt... *smiles..* but there is also the risk that the partners to this are foolishly making themselves vulnerable to the wrong person..

Mon 10:45:19 PM EDT May 9 tzigane . . . *listening to fire*

so taboos dont necessarily exist in your understanding of the lifestyle....but there are things that require knowledge and consideration and involve a risk higher than other lifestlye practices....if i understand you correctly, fire?

so there is nothing that One could suggest you participate in that is off limits/sacred/against your core beliefs/offensive...if all safety measures are accounted for and reasonably accommodated?

Mon 10:45:40 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . *listening about the term 'taboo' and its context from fire..* so would you say that all exchanges among us... no matter the physical action, like blood and watersports.. are on the same level of... let's say, intrigue.. as bondage and flogging..? there are no taboos...? *curious*

Mon 10:47:55 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . *pointing to Tzigane's post..* pretty much what she said..

Mon 10:49:33 PM EDT May 9 tzigane . . . *listening to bella...lil smile*

i have met some that consider bondage so deliciously taboo...so much so that to enact bondage with Aanother takes on fetish proportions...so naughty...so deviant...so wicked....that they get all worked up just thinking about bondage...i kinda envy/admire that passion that an idea can inspire...that the idea of something being "taboo" can inspire.

Mon 10:52:38 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . yeah.. the thrill....
so i guess it is subjective then.. we define it based on what we seek and find pleasure in... sometimes that taints 'taboos' as something to avoid... sometimes it makes something all the more seductive...

Mon 10:54:13 PM EDT May 9 *lapknight* . . . are we talking about taboos then as guilty pleasures or as things off lmits

Mon 10:54:43 PM EDT May 9 tzigane . . . so if Oone labels something taboo for themself...it can give an idea weight...fuel a fire.

but is the converse true then too...to have no taboos...to approach things as they are....does that diminish the experience?

Mon 10:54:44 PM EDT May 9 plain ole fire . . . The term is..... an issue for me, tzigane.

What is unwise to participate in without "full knowledge" of their Risks.. are what is more aptly the proverbial lay of the land. Limiting the conceptualization to simply something "taboo", encapsulates ideas which have much Wider implications.

*shakes head* you seem to have an agenda, by placing meaning where none has been placed.

In all relationships which are encased in the BDSM structures are in the idea, NEGOCIATED in detail before participation. But understand very clearly that if a persons involved in a M/s structured interaction have clearly negociated.... After it is set in motion (the M/s construct) and both/all parties have agreed to the parameters of their interaction the person agreeing to service... Surrenders (<--- note this term clearly) their will to an owner. This is scary chit. Their control has been given over to another individual FULLY...... ergo the critical aspect is to always make sure all parties are on the same page.

Soooo that if a moment of crisis(pressing of personal boundaries... aka limits.... and as discussed here... vanilla-ish taboos) takes place there will hopefully be an option to ask permission for discussions of the issues at hand.

Mon 10:54:57 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . it can be either, boy... i think we all have a little of both?

Mon 10:57:23 PM EDT May 9 tzigane . . . *listening...reading...then re-reading fire's post...taking a moment before answering*

Mon 10:57:40 PM EDT May 9 plain ole fire . . . darn fingers... *soft smile* aren't at their best tonight.


ella, i take it htat you speak of "edge play"... and scening.

Mon 11:01:37 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . any participation at any level of what we consider BDSM without full knowledge of risks, agreement to limits, negotiations, all that stuff... would be careless to say the least. that's not in question... the intended approach to the topic was what things we feel instinctually are we more hesitant about, in terms of them being of a sensitive minority... but i agree that all real and good dynamics would entail an ongoing press and discussion of limits and ideas and further exploration...

Mon 11:02:42 PM EDT May 9 plain ole fire . . . ahh... ella
the idea of what is personally considered off limits normally within daily life.

Mon 11:02:59 PM EDT May 9 tzigane . . . *soft smile*

if it seems i have an agenda, fire...my apologies...that is certainly not the aim of this discussion.

i think i understand what you are saying when you speak of "taboos" as a vanilla concept not applicable to deep M/s interactions. and i appreciate your viewpoint as it speaks to level i have only ever heard of...not personally experienced...the concept that when one is an "s" in a deep relationship....there are no taboos because one is interacting with their M...One they trust and are willing to place everything of who they are at the feet of One to do with as that One sees fit.

so taboo is null.

am i understanding you?

Mon 11:04:30 PM EDT May 9 plain ole fire . . . Note: Have been in this lifestyle over 20 years, so at times some of the "practices" when entering initially into bdsm are less something of that "taboo" ilk. But grasp the basic idea being touched on here tonight.

Mon 11:07:58 PM EDT May 9 *lapknight* . . . *escuses self, bows to all and exits*

Mon 11:08:14 PM EDT May 9 tzigane . . . blessed night, lapknight

Mon 11:09:24 PM EDT May 9 plain ole fire . . . tzigane.... *grins a bit* There will always be something which will be "out of bounds" for an individual........... as well as..... adventures which will border on taboo of a vanilla type that will illict an excitement . But when in the depth of service to someone trusted, the interactions have a different (not lesser or greater) acceptance by an individual in service.

In my case
they aren't as numerous "taboos".... "no fucking way am i going there zones" as in the beginning of stepping into this life unusual.

Mon 11:12:44 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . *listening..* yeah... i get that.... when you surrender to One, pleasing them is.. first... delving into something that might be considered taboo to anyone else, or something you may have thought was off limits for yourself.. it all becomes just a way of service to some...

Mon 11:12:45 PM EDT May 9 tzigane . . . *eyes shifting to the clock*

so in summary it seems the topic of taboos in BDSM as discussed tonight seem to encompass those concepts that touch on the personal limits of Ppeople....ad that what is considered taboo to some is not to Oothers...that taboos are so personal that in some contexts they cease to exist at all. but also that the tenets of safety, communication, and consensuality are most necessary in all types of BDSM interactions.

is there anything that anyone would like to add to that summary of our discussion tonight?

Mon 11:12:50 PM EDT May 9 plain ole fire . . . Take care, lapknight

*softly chuckles* Don't mind me, ladies.... tend to steer people away from the scene side into the practical application within relationship side of the lifestyle. It's one of my many flaws.

Mon 11:13:59 PM EDT May 9 plain ole fire . . . ella... definitely becomes something very much an individual thing.

Mon 11:15:34 PM EDT May 9 plain ole fire . . . tzigane.. sounds good to me
with one added thought.


Dealing with new persons and assisting them in finding intelligent education to prevent their involving or having dangerous situations take place .... is often overlooked. It's something to think on.

Mon 11:15:40 PM EDT May 9 tzigane . . . *warm smile to fire*

your voice is one i always enjoy hearing, fire....your experiences shed light on things that otherwise would not have been brought up tonight. thank you.

Mon 11:16:42 PM EDT May 9 plain ole fire . . . Kind of you to say so... tzigane.

Just hope to assist others avoid the more dangerous sides of what can happen.

Mon 11:17:42 PM EDT May 9 plain ole fire . . . gesh..... hope that was understandable.

Mon 11:18:33 PM EDT May 9 tzigane . . . and yes...i hear you thought, fire...there is a responsibility i think in the lifestyle to support the newer folks in finding as you said..."intelligent education" to guide them on their journey is a very serious topic...perhaps one to be explored in next week's Time Out? *twinkle eyes to ellabella, eyebrows raised*

Mon 11:19:39 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . *waves to lapknight... then smiling to fire...* it's not a flaw.. it points to a corner of maybe unseen perspective.. that's a good thing..
*tumbling off Tzigane...* agreed that it's a subjective thing... Shush like all things for us...the good thing is that the glitter of this 'life' is being open to at least the witnessing of what might feel 'taboo'... there is always potential to explore, safely, what we might seek.. and there is at least the respect for others interests and particularities when it comes to things we ourselves wouldn't do.. *smiles*

Mon 11:19:54 PM EDT May 9 plain ole fire . . . *chuckles*
tzigane.. it is a current controversy within the wider community.

Mon 11:21:12 PM EDT May 9 tzigane . . . *nodding enthusiastically to bella*

yes yes...that is important too...not judging what others enjoy...it may not be what you wanna do...but that doesn't make it "wrong".

Mon 11:22:03 PM EDT May 9 plain ole fire . . . There's a saying locally.

Your kink might not be my kink.. but I respect your freedom to enjoy your kink.

Mon 11:24:16 PM EDT May 9 *MrMan* . . . *Heads back out smiling, thinking the supporting new people in finding intelligent education to be something really worth focusing on, happy to seem them all as I head out for My program*

Mon 11:25:03 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . controversy... that's a good word.. *little grin..*
thank you all for being a part of tonight's discussion (one thank you waved in the wind to lapknight).. it's always good to open our minds a bit and just talk honestly about what we think... learn from each other and about each other...
and thank you as always, Princess... it's always a pleasure to sidekick with you.. *big smiles..*

Mon 11:25:04 PM EDT May 9 tzigane . . . yeppers, fire...the same words exist in my rt too. *beaming*

ok lovelies...i think this rounds up another successful night in Time Out...you all are welcome to stay and chat...i must attend to rt.

thank you, ella, for your time and energy in co-hosting tonight.

fire, thank you for your valuable contribution to the discussion and blessed hours to you until paths cross again.

*gathering myself up...and out*

Mon 11:26:13 PM EDT May 9 plain ole fire . . . Take good care everyone
Always glad to assist in my peculiar way, tzigane.

take care ella.... it's been a pleasure.

*heads out to r/t tasks*

Mon 11:27:52 PM EDT May 9 little ella . . . the pleasure has been mine, fire, thank you..
good night Princess...
*little ballerina bow before following suit and out..*

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