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Monday, May 30, 2016

Mon 09:57:32 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . *entering into the space*

Mon 09:58:48 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . *settles in next to the Princess.. grinning pink and looking up at the clock..*

Mon 09:59:40 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . *bright eyes and big grin as ellabella appears...winking one eye...listening to the tick tock of the clock*

Mon 10:00:16 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . welcome to Time Out E/everyone! W/we all know by now that this room is open every Monday night as a safe haven for discussion.. where Dominants and submissives alike can have open and honest conversation without any tying prejudices or fear or judgement. for a more clear understanding of what this room is about, please take a look at the rules link right up there.. *points overhead..* there's also a link for all O/our past Time Out discussions, for A/any that are interested..

Mon 10:01:18 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . W/we're coming together here for just one reason.. to have open and honest exchanges of ideas and opinions on BDSM related topics.. an even playing field for A/any to jump in and discuss matters that will contribute to O/our thinking and learning.. W/we want to give and take with E/each other.. grow O/our understandings.. be closer as a community.. so please, feel free to share and enjoy and add to the atmosphere.. A/any with a topic in mind should feel comfortable to take advantage of this room every week.. it would be for all O/our benefit..

Mon 10:02:14 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . the topic chosen for right now is:

*'coming out' as a Dominant or submissive*

Time Out is home for this discussion from now, until 11.30pm castle time. Tzigane is starting us off with an elaboration and then let's talk!

Mon 10:02:18 PM EDT May 30 petknight . . . *sneaking inm settles at Tzi's feet*

Mon 10:03:06 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . *smiles to the boy..*

Mon 10:05:54 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . so for tonight's discussion I thought it would be interesting on focusing on the aspect of the topic as it relates to coming out as a Dom/sub to Oone "vanilla" family, friends, co-workers...rather than to Ooneself or community...as those are also steps in the process of coming out.

but before Wwe proceed to that focus...does Aanyone currently present wish to share where in Ttheir jurney of "out" Tthey currently are...i.e. personally, in Oone's community, to all the "vanillas" in Ttheir life?

Mon 10:06:47 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . *warm smile to the pet*

Mon 10:11:12 PM EDT May 30 petknight . . . *nosing to see if i may claim my favorite place as i consider the topic for tonight*

i'm "out" with very few people... certain close friends only really rt. its a tricky thing in my community and in my position... perhaps even more so as a submissive male then any other combination

Mon 10:11:41 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . i'm 'out'.. i only keep a very small circle of friends rt who are closer to me than family, and they have known for nearly as long as i have known.. family.... hmm.. they know.. but there hasn't been an open discussion about it.. they are fully aware that my tastes are.. different.. concluded by the relationships they've seen me a part of.. i wouldn't use the words 'Dominant' and 'submissive' in a conversation with my parents... but enough has been exchanged so that the idea is painted without it being blatantly spoken..

Mon 10:12:28 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . *welcoming the pet in to curl in his spot as I listen and respond*

how did you come out to those close friends of yours, pet?

Mon 10:14:10 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . and.. *listening and adding to the Princess' question...* and was it liberating when you did come out to those close friends?

Mon 10:14:15 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . and the same question to you, ellabella...how did you out yourself to those close friends you have rt that know of your kinky identity? and do you use the words..."Dom/sub" with those close rt family like friends?

Mon 10:15:19 PM EDT May 30 Alexandra . . . ~listens in~

Mon 10:16:46 PM EDT May 30 petknight . . . *slips in between Her legs, rumbling my pleasure at being reunited again*

mostly it would be when in a conversation that such could come up comfortably, once i have seen how openminded one can be about it. usually it starts with my theory on pack dynamics and innate dominance in groups

Mon 10:20:21 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . welcome, Alexandra.

and just to share a lil of my Own story...I am not out in My rt to My vanilla world...I have a job that would be comprised by that info...and My family is very...judgemental...but I am out to My closest friends....and I am active in my community...but I keep very clear and separate lines between My BDSM life and My work/family life. Although...about two months ago...I saw My sister...I come from a very large family...8 siblings in all...so yah...I saw My sister closest in age to Me out in My local D...She had just returned to the state where I live...and She was at the same Dungeon I frequent...yah...She is a Domme...and yah...She and I freaked out...hugged, chatted...and swore we would never speak of our BDSM activities over the dinner table with Mom. *laffin, recalling*

Mon 10:20:52 PM EDT May 30 chally . . . ~watches from the shadows~

Mon 10:21:39 PM EDT May 30 petknight . . . well now that IS a fascinating story, Tzigane....

allo chally

Mon 10:22:14 PM EDT May 30 chally . . . ~whispers~ silkie

Mon 10:24:47 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . welcome chally

*listening to the pet*

oooh...that is a nice way to come around to the topic of your choices...discussing concepts of Dominance as they relate to the animal kingdom...nice way to smooth the thought...and not just have your listener focus on the potentiality of you being a social deviant...but rather as a natural behavior in the animal world...of which humans are a part of. nice.

Mon 10:24:51 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . *smiles..* hello, Miss Alexandra..
*thinking..* well... when i say small circle of friends, i mean really small.. 4-5.. i loved with all of them at some stage and still love with 3. so it would never have been practical for me to keep it all a secret even if i wanted to. they've all been my peers for a long time, so it was kind of a journey of discovery for them just as it was for me.. they watched me grow into it... when i was first "growing into it", coming out was not so much 'hey i'm a submissive, just thought you might like to know..'.. it was more a number of conversations and friendly confessions over a couple of years.. "i met this older man and i love that he's older.." .. "i saw a wan today with fresh, sharp nails and i really wanted to feel them..".. "oh, this bruise? He hit me.. i loved it.." - etc. i was comfortable enough to share with those people and what i shared gave them a pretty good idea of who i was.. and yes, the technical discussions are there with them.. using the right words and stuff... though that's mostly because they are ever curious, otherwise i would probably keep my wording more casual and natural... in saying that, Daddy is "Daddy" to them..

Mon 10:28:02 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . *nodding listening to ellabella*

so it was just a natural progression for you coupled with good honest communication and your dear ones being open-minded and caring enough of who you are to understand this is who you are. I love that. it must feel so good to have that kinda close circle, bella.

Mon 10:28:56 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . *smiles to chally.. listening to the Princess...* i love that story... funny how 'coming out' can be so complex sometimes and always different.. i have no problem talking to my friends about most of what comes to my mind.. but the thought of doing the same on a rt community level, like at a local Dingeon, makes me ridiculously nervous.

Mon 10:29:44 PM EDT May 30 chally . . . ~nods~ Zig....

i am out with a few but increasing number of my friends, although not my family...they would not handle the information well...i have a fellow submissive who i work with that i consider a dear friend as well and she and i are "safe" buddies....we discuss any of the Dominants who contact us through our profiles on a certain lifestyle website, we compare notes on them and when we meet any, the other knows it and we share our locations on google location. i work in healthcare and sexual comments fly often...there are a handful whom what i am "kinky".....~grins~ most times it comes out as a form of flirting....and then there is the intertwining of my lifestyle because of having met my ex-husband here and well...~shrugs~

Mon 10:30:25 PM EDT May 30 chally . . . ~smiles to ella~

~turns my head and nods~ Evening Alexandra

Mon 10:31:09 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . My vanilla friends accept who I am...but they don't wanna hear about it. so yah. I don't talk about such with them.

has Aanyone here encountered the experience of "outing themself" to Oone and having it met with judgement of a negative sort?

Mon 10:32:35 PM EDT May 30 chally . . . ~looks to Zig~ i have not....most are very interested, although i must say sometimes that interest feels like being interviewed by the national enquirer..~chuckles~

Mon 10:32:53 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . what about outing yourself to local Dungeon community scares you, ellabella?

Mon 10:33:40 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . *nods..* yeah, it's very comforting... i think i would find it too difficult, hiding such a big part of myself... it would be lonely for me because i just naturally want to feel understood.
*listenjng to chally..* that's great, about your colleague! i didn't think of that advantage to coming out... it means having people, or at least someone, that not only can you share your world with, but can play a part in safety when exploring in the lifestyle...

Mon 10:34:29 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . *laffin hearing chally's last comment...then addressing her previous one*

so you work your way into outing yourself by playfully testing the waters, so to speak, with those in your life...and then letting your personal identity sorta flush out overtime, chally?

Mon 10:34:43 PM EDT May 30 petknight . . . yeah, i have... it was... very painful

Mon 10:36:02 PM EDT May 30 chally . . . exactly ella...~smiles~ she is my safety net and i, hers

she told me of On who she had been speaking with, he had just his 1st name and his picture.....i have learned well how to do my research for safety reasons and within 2 hours, i had a whole slew of info...which helped us make a decision that he was bad news

Mon 10:37:46 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . oh pet...I'm sorry that you had such an experience...how did you move past it...do you still stay in contact with the person that you had that less than successful experience with in sharing yourself with them? did you learn anything from the experience you wanna share in here...kinda like words of wisdom?

Mon 10:37:56 PM EDT May 30 chally . . . yes Zig......i shock a lot of people....~lol~

even when it comes to my choice of music...i don't exude "coolness".....actually a bit geeky until i let ones know me, but i choose who i let in

Mon 10:38:10 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . *thinks..* i don't know.. i think the judgement of a stranger in general just makes me nervous.. more so than the judgement of someone i know.. maybe because i would be more comfortable defending myself and my choices to someone i'm familiar with, rather than trying to explain or justify myself to someone i don't know..
*hearing the other question about negative reactions..* well my father was not pleased the one or two times he actually saw me with One.. but i can't imagine that's an abnormal thing, given the circumstances

Mon 10:38:48 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . oh chally...that does sound valuable...an rt resource and safety net. very important to have!

Mon 10:40:00 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . *listening to bella*

so your negative experience...how did you deal with it? and same question to you that I asked of the pet...do you have any words of wisdom to share in here?

Mon 10:40:59 PM EDT May 30 petknight . . . *looks thoughtful* its my best friends wife... so yeah i still have contact, it took a little while to move past, but she's always been a fairly... rigid thinking everyone who disagrees with her is completely wrong and stupid sort... was uncomfortable for a long time. She's also racist and bigoted... though found that all later. Had i known before i wouldnt have brought it up at all, but she was my best friend's girl... how could i not have told her?

*shrugs* no, no words of wisdom, save be careful when you out yourself, and understand that it makes you vulnerable and when you are vulnerable... you can get hurt... you also cant ever take it back

Mon 10:41:20 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . *listening again to chally..* i would definitely be a lot more confident going to a rt dungeon if i had submissive friend rt to go with

Mon 10:42:45 PM EDT May 30 chally . . . yes....in fact...you've heard me talk of my upcoming trip...i have 2 friends (both who know my life choice) whom i will give an envelope to before i go...the envelope contains His picture, birthdate and all other contact information. The envelope will be sealed and i expect it to be returned to me that way when i return from my trip. He is aware that i am doing this, is unaware of the identity of the 2 i have chosen, just that i trust them. and He has given permission for me to give his cell # to any whom i deem needs it to contact me in the event of an emergency.

i take precautions.

Mon 10:47:44 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . and here's a lil more of My story with My sister...that firt night I saw her at the local D I wasn't playing...just being social that night...but the next time I was out at the D...She was there...and I was playing as a bottom in a very intense scene..My sister watched and She was not pleased with what I participated in...She is My older sister and a Domme...and has always been very protective of Me...so yah...it bothered Her to see Me bottom as a masochist...later...not that night...but later that week I reached out to Her and talked to Her about it...and Wwe smoothed things over through open honest caring communication...and came to agreement that what Wwe each chose to do in Oour individual lives is OOur business...that Wwe care and support each Oother...but yah...Wwe don't need to be witnesses to each Oother's activities...She is really into CBT...yah...it would bother Me to watch Her work her boy over...so yah...*lil laff*...acceptance...but also respect for each Oother's differences is the route Wwe have gone.

so it seems to Me...even within the lifestyle...with Tthose that are also lifestyle...there can be some negative judgement experiences...so being out in the lifestyle doesn't mean blind embracing acceptance.

Mon 10:49:36 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . how i dealt with it... hmm.. i think i am still dealing with it.. my parents live and have lived outside the country for a long time, so i only get to see them on holidays, sometimes, and never for as long as i'd like. it is tricky with my father because my choice of male partners makes him uncomfortable. the age thing.. the 'Daddy' thing.... it makes him think/feel like i am the way i am somehow because of him. it's not the case, but neither of us want to have a whole discussion about it. I the instances where he has been negative, i have simply presented myself as non negotiable fact.. there's no point getting too opinionated about it, because i'm me and you love me.
*listening to petknight...* my words of advice are very different to yours, though i do understand you.. but i would say... time and effort spent hiding is wasted.. life is so short.. and we have every right to live how we want. those that can't accept us, we'll.. they shouldn't matter... but i know things are not that simple for everyone.

Mon 10:49:42 PM EDT May 30 petknight . . . CBT?

Mon 10:51:02 PM EDT May 30 chally . . . ~looks to silkie~ you may regret asking

Mon 10:52:26 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . *listening to chally and ella both*

yah...I started in My local community as a single female sub...it was daunting...and I took precautions...the only lifestyle Ppeople at knew back then were in here...so I gave all My contact info to one in here...and had agreed upon check in times...and was given permission to reach out to that person at anytime should I need a support system. I also knew a Dom in here that made Himself available to be My support...My guide as I adventured in rt...it was invaluable to have Tthose saftey and support systems in place. now I have rt Ffriends as well as vt Ffriends I maintain contact with for support and safety measures.

Mon 10:52:58 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . such a good point, Princess... no matter how open and accepting we want to think we are, we are human, and in particular situations, we can't help our natural reactions and judgments... that's not the issue... it's how we deal with them... which obviously you and your sister did in the best of ways... understanding and respect

Mon 10:53:38 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . CBT=cock and ball torture, pet

don't worry...not anything I'm into. *flash of a grin*

Mon 10:53:45 PM EDT May 30 chally . . . ~listens~

Mon 10:53:54 PM EDT May 30 petknight . . . *ah's and nods, simply listening thoughtful*

Mon 10:55:40 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . oh ellabella...I like that...who you are is a non-negotiable fact...and loving you means loving all of who you are...and life is too short to hide. *soft smile*

and yes...pet...moving with caution...and knowing that words once spoken cannot be unsaid.

Mon 10:56:45 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . so here's a question...are any of you fully out on social media sites like Facebook?

Mon 10:57:56 PM EDT May 30 chally . . . i am as chally...lol

not with my real name though

Mon 10:58:18 PM EDT May 30 petknight . . . i dont post anything private on facebook, of any nature

Mon 10:58:50 PM EDT May 30 chally . . . i hate that it constantly asks if i know someone from my other profile...crossing over....mean to me that they get asked if they know my alternate also

Mon 10:59:50 PM EDT May 30 chally . . . and my family does know my nickname of "chally"...as well as chally's last name

Mon 11:00:13 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . oh and another safety precaution I took when I ventured out into My rrt lifestyle community...I introduced Myself to the DM...let Her know I was new and nervous and asked for a tour and to be introduced to known and respected Ppeople at the D. I think an important part of being out in Oone's community and active means taking safety precautions, that is why I bring it up in this discussion.

Mon 11:00:58 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . *is still a fb newbie* but yes... and i love that it's a blend of rt and vt.. as in, friends from both are found there.. it can be comforting to have both worlds in one place, or at least a part of both worlds.. i actually think social media can be a good way to transition into a clearer projection of who you are to your rt people.. subtle hints with postings, etc.

Mon 11:03:41 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . *hearing chally*

yah...I have two facebook pages. One lifestyle...one vanilla. I do not post pics of My kids on the lifestyle site...and I donot have crossover vanilla friends or posts on My lifestyle facebook...and no profile pic on either so that when the advert comes up to "friend" people I may know on either page...as I know they also see My pages as options to "friend"...I cant be easily identified as Me by either profile pic. though it is a lot of work...and I do long to just be all out already! *nervous lil laff*

Mon 11:03:46 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . *nodding lots..* thank you for adding that, Princess.. i had been of the thought that if i was going to venture to a rt dungeon, keeping my head down and blending into the background would be my approach.. but you and chalky both highlight the importance of safety.. and now that seems like a really naive idea.. presenting yourself to the DM was smart..

Mon 11:04:59 PM EDT May 30 petknight . . . i thought about making a second facebook page, but i dont know...

Mon 11:05:12 PM EDT May 30 chally . . . my reg fb page has my picture and is almost all family..so my kids are there as well...my chally page has no personal info or pictures

Mon 11:07:03 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . *wonders if Dominants by nature find it easier to come out.. just because of how they are...*

Mon 11:07:25 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . I like the idea that you brought up ella...about fb or other media sites being a nice way to break the ice with the "vanillas" in life...but nowadays in the States, at least...what one posts on public media sites can be accessed by employers and colleges and yah...I just don't know that it is a good idea to be out on social media...even with tight security settings.

Mon 11:08:00 PM EDT May 30 petknight . . . thats a good question ella, if its easier for Dominants

Mon 11:08:39 PM EDT May 30 chally . . . ~nods in agreement with Zig~

Mon 11:09:35 PM EDT May 30 chally . . . i think it depends on the Dominant....Alpha's certainly would have no issue

Mon 11:09:42 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . hmmm...perhaps it is a question to address at another time when there are more Dominants present...or with your own Dominants?

*eyes shifting to the clock*

but for now it looks to be time to wrap this discussion up...Aany wish to add in some last thoughts?

Mon 11:10:03 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . i guess the judging can't be helped... it's beyond friends and family.. that's kind of sad, really..

Mon 11:11:13 PM EDT May 30 chally . . . no, nothing from me

thank you for the discussion Zig, ella...silkie

Mon 11:12:00 PM EDT May 30 petknight . . . glad to be here

Mon 11:12:18 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . last thoughts.... *thinking.. smiling..* just that i am very glad to know you all, so i'm grateful that we have a place to come together and be ourselves around each other.. it's vt, but it's still home..

Mon 11:12:24 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . there is a whole arm of this discussion Wwe didn't touch on tonight...but it is nagging at Me so I will bring it up....

is being out in the BDSM world...akin to being out in the LGBT world? and if so how...and how is it different?

just a thought...no time to explore that thought tonight...but yah...it was niggling at Me so I had to throw it out there. *lil grin*

Mon 11:12:29 PM EDT May 30 Alexandra . . . For most dominant people I know, it's rather a non-issue.

Mon 11:14:08 PM EDT May 30 Alexandra . . . And I was actually thinking that exact thing as I listened. It's not like being gay or trans or any of that.

It's about how you live your life, not gender related at all.

Mon 11:14:11 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . yes...support systems...Friends...safety...and cautious wisdom in who Wwe chose to out ourselves too is very important...and I am so grateful that Wwe Aall have this space to support and respect and listen to each Oother in. *soft smile*

thank Yyou Aall...for making it in tonight...for sharing.

Mon 11:14:34 PM EDT May 30 Alexandra . . . So even the term "coming out" seems a bit odd to me in reference to BDSM. ~chuckle~

Mon 11:14:52 PM EDT May 30 petknight . . . i would debate that, Alexandra but another time

take care A/all

Mon 11:15:28 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . *nodding lots at the Princess' last thought.. hearing Alexandra...* oh, there's another arm of this discussion to think about! if we think anyone close enough to us in our rts even needs to be told... if our nature just speaks for itself in our regular interactions and ways about life..

Mon 11:17:38 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . *laffin hearing ellabella*

yah...once i outed Myself to My friends rt...they were all yah...duh...i knew you were kinky already. *laffin more*...but it still felt good to have it shared and out there...even if i don't talk about in depth with My vanillas.

Mon 11:20:38 PM EDT May 30 Tzigane . . . Alexandra...it would be interesting to hear more of You thoughts on how being lifestyle isn't like being LGBT...but yes...perhaps another time..for now...good night Aall...blessing to Yyou and Yyours.

and thank you ellabella for the lovely intro and support in leading this discussion. Alexandra thank You being here in offical capacity and for the work You do with the transcripts. *warm smile*

My rt needs Me now.

*rising...flourishing a lil bow...and gone*

Mon 11:20:55 PM EDT May 30 little ella . . . *giggles..* it's nice to be known so well huh!
thanks so much for the conversation everyone! and Princess.. thank you for conjuring up such a good topic for us to be a part of..
*gathering myself up and getting out of here for a bit..*

Mon 11:22:19 PM EDT May 30 chally . . . ~rises and turns to the D~

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