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Mon 05:49:56 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . .
Welcome to Time Out! Tonight, we’ll be discussing BDSM Etiquette. Because there are so many different groups within the BDSM culture, discussing a be all, end all of etiquette is impossible. Every group you go to will have their own set policies. Tonight, we’ll simply talk about what etiquette means within the BDSM construct here at the Castle. We’re not here to tell you how to exist within the BDSM rooms, but to discuss things that play an integral part of the overall BDSM lifestyle here in our v/t home.

As a refresher, here are the direct links to the BDSM pertinent rules and customs set by the Mistress of the Castle:

Beauty's Castle Dungeon D/s Etiquette Guide

Beauty's Castle Dungeon Customs & Protocols

Mon 05:50:36 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . .
The following comes from: http://www.evilmonk.org/a/noteneti.cfm

• Follow the conduct standards of the chat room
• Use courtesy when chatting
• Stay on topic when a topic is designated
• Keep in mind that people can keep logs of Chat sessions
• Don't use scrolling macros or distracting text effects while chatting. This disrupts the flow of chat.

You’ll notice that these suggestions mirror what we here at Beauty’s strive to incorporate into the chat. We ask you to be familiar with the room rules and protocols and to remain courteous when chatting. Keep in mind, this doesn’t say you’re required to respect every person in the room. But, showing courtesy is always the right way to behave. Every person is going to have their own opinion of what courtesy entails. Some think you must greet each and every person who comes in. Others believe that offering insincere greetings do not show courtesy, at all. Respect for titles is expected. The staff of the castle work hard for your benefit and whether you respect the person, you can always show respect for the title and Castle.

Mon 05:50:51 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . .
“Netiquette” – While we are together in the virtual realm of BDSM, it’s always important to remember following room rules and protocols go a long way, even in this environment. What are some things you believe to be important etiquette? Here at Beauty’s we always expect that:

• When a dominant and submissive are in scene – chatters will not red either person. It goes without saying that it is extremely rude to send private messages, or even public messages, to either player while they are engaged; if there is an emergency and at least one of the scene participants MUST be notified, it should be the dominant, NEVER the submissive.

Mon 05:51:24 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . .
• Another example of showing proper respect to an established couple is allowing the submissive to enter and greet his/her dominant before offering greetings. Many submissives will not greet or acknowledge others until given permission to do so. This holds true in a serve. When in service, even to one who is not your dominant, etiquette suggests that your attention be on the dominant until the service concludes – i.e. no chit chatting on your way to and from the kitchen. Show respect for yourself and the person you’ve offered service to by paying attention and doing your best. As an outside observer to a serve, please refrain from engaging the submissive/bottom in service until he/she is once again free to chat.

• You ask before you send a red to someone you have never gained prior permission from.

Mon 05:51:33 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . .
• That you refrain from using flaming language. We understand that problems of all sorts arise from time to time, but we’re all adults and we want to see mature, adult behaviour in resolving issues. If you cannot maintain calm, it’s never wrong to leave and come back when you can resolve issues in a more mature manner. Also, the monitors are around to help resolve issues, if needed. (We’d prefer you are able to handle your own affairs in an adult manner, but we are always ready to step in when/if needed. We do understand that sometimes emotions can override rational thought.)

• We ask you to remember that you’re in a room that revolves around dominance and submission. If you’re not engaged in service to another or involved in a private discussion, it’s always good practice to offer general service to the dominants of the room.

• If you’re in the Dungeon, you should always be engaged in some sort of BDSM activity or topic. The room is not a lounge. We have the lenient rule of three off topic posts and then back onto a room theme. We do allow for more off-topic chat if you’re keeping busy cleaning or making tools/toys, cleaning your dominants area, etc..). If you aren’t feeling like you can stay on theme, the Pub is a great place to go and unwind and still hang out with people you enjoy.

Mon 05:52:09 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . .
• When in doubt – honour and integrity should always win out.

Mon 05:53:15 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . .
The following comes from the Black Rose page of etiquette and was shared by Dark Traveler:

Submission/Dominance is not a competition. Pretentiously claiming to be the best submissive/Dominant, gloating over having the most or best toys, and other more subtle ranking tactics are unseemly.
If a dominant requires that someone ask him/her before addressing his/her submissive, it is his/her responsibility to inform others of this rule. Strangers should be forgiven once (but not twice!)
If you've prepared yourself by learning scene etiquette in an on-line chat rooms, do yourself a favor and forget everything. The fantasy of anonymous on-line role-play does not convert to actual, in-person behavior and etiquette.

Mon 05:53:26 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . .
Friends vs. Acquantainces

You may notice people who are close to each other committing what look like flagrant etiquette violations. Most often these people are friends who don't feel offended by their close friends' jibes. Do not assume that because they can, you can.
Not all submissives– in fact, very few– are instructed to be submissive to all dominants. Do not expect a submissive to be submissive to you simply because they are wearing a collar.
Playful threats towards a submissive you're personal friends with may be considered cute and delightful. Playful threats towards a submissive you have just met will probably be considered an unsolicited advance or a general lack of etiquette.
Likewise, tattling to a submissive's dominant about his/her misbehavior is usually considered cute and harmless among friends. Tattling to a submissive's dominant when you don't know either of them will make you look whiny.

Mon 05:53:44 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . .
Alexandra will be sharing the link to the full Black Rose article. *s*

Mon 05:54:04 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . .
Finally:

What other etiquette rules can you think of? Are there rules you disagree with, and why? What valid exceptions are there to breaking protocol? The floor is open for open discussion.

Mon 06:30:51 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . Here is the link to the Black Rose article so generously contributed by Dark Traveler...

Black Rose Dungeon Etiquette Handout Article

Mon 06:37:14 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . .

REMINDER

Time Out is for general discussion ONLY. Personal issues should be left at the door. Please review the Time Out Rules at the top of page if you have questions, or need a refresher on what Time Out is about.

Thanks and let's have a great discussion. *s*

Mon 07:01:06 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . .
~*slips in...shining up'er iridescent hostess~pin~*~~~ settles onto'a stool, feet swingin' in their lil'Jack and Sally socks~*~~

Mon 07:02:27 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . ~sits next to you, nudges~ Heya. ~g~

Mon 07:05:37 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . Well, hello Alexandra, fancy meeting you here..~nudges with'a lil'grin~

Mon 07:06:20 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . ~soft laugh~ Well, it has been a while.

Mon 07:07:11 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . Moves to t he comfort of shadow, her voice a serrated edge* Good evening, L/ladies.

Mon 07:07:48 PM EST Nov 20 DEACON . . . Steps in and takes a seat...

Mon 07:08:11 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . It certainly has...~looks'round..glad Ernie and crew keep it spiffy up in here~~

Welcome, iustitia..~warm smile~

Mon 07:08:21 PM EST Nov 20 ~chrissa~ {CR} . . . *settles and reads*

Mon 07:08:35 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . .
As you all come in, please do go ahead and read what's posted....*ws*

Mon 07:10:01 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . Miss Alexandra....may i please speak with You in red when it's convenient?

Mon 07:11:29 PM EST Nov 20 *naughtyduchess* . . . *takes a stool to sit and listen*

Mon 07:11:35 PM EST Nov 20 doesnotplaywellwithOothers . . . reads

Mon 07:12:29 PM EST Nov 20 DEACON . . . Sits back after reading....HMMMMMMmmm ponders.....

Mon 07:13:21 PM EST Nov 20 ~chrissa~ {CR} . . . i think something else that i've heard of... is that if a submissive is collared, the Dominant is typically informed of any misbehavior and responsible for corrective action.

Mon 07:13:36 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . ~grins~ Ernie has a tight rein on his staff... they know their job.

Welcome, everyone. ~smiles around~

Mon 07:14:04 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . Certainly, iustitia. ~s~ Fire away anytime.

Mon 07:14:47 PM EST Nov 20 DEACON . . . IS the DM going to be here

Mon 07:15:52 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . Many work that way, chrissa, though there have been dominants who let their bottoms handle their own affairs in that way. What do you think about either way? ~curious smile~

Mon 07:16:30 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . Darkson was not part of the makeup of this Time Out, Deacon. I couldn't say either way..*s*.. Though, I'm sure he'll be around..if I were to guess..

Mon 07:16:41 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . Yes, that is the generally accepted protocol, chrissa. ~nods~ Some people may have a more relaxed attitude, but when in doubt, it's always best to fall back on protocol.

Mon 07:17:04 PM EST Nov 20 DEACON . . . NOds...thank you soulsong...

Mon 07:17:42 PM EST Nov 20 ella . . . *winds through the crowd with a smile all round.. bringing myself to Alexandra and folding myself up right there at her feet.. twinkling my gaze upwards to her before finding the reading links..*

Mon 07:17:50 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . No problem, DEACON. Was there a question you had concerning what is posted? ~curious smile~

Mon 07:17:53 PM EST Nov 20 ~chrissa~ {CR} . . . *thinks* i suppose i feel i could handle myself as so much is based in miscommunication, but if things seem to not be resolving... refer them to the Dominant.

Mon 07:18:06 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . ~welcomes ella with a smile~

Mon 07:18:47 PM EST Nov 20 DEACON . . . I was just curious if He would join us...

Mon 07:18:54 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . Hey, you. ~smiles as you settle, playing with your hair as you read, weaving bits of silken locks through fingers~

Mon 07:19:19 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . The general consensus here among admin staff is that once a dominant steps in to be responsible for his/her submissive's behavior, they also experience the repercussions of any poor behavior..

Mon 07:19:33 PM EST Nov 20 DM . . . settles in*

Mon 07:19:47 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . Okay, Deacon, just wanted to make sure if you had a question or concern, we didn't miss it..*s*

Mon 07:19:51 PM EST Nov 20 ~chrissa~ {CR} . . . *nodding* i think that's all part of D/s, right? the responsibility of owning one...

Mon 07:20:49 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . You'd be surprised by how many dominants have shirked the responsiblity, pixie~miss... especially when it comes to poor behavior and consequence..

Mon 07:21:10 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . *steps in, hoping RT will leave me alone*

Mon 07:21:15 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . ~nod of welcome to Darkson~

Mon 07:21:35 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . ~smiles to jenica~

Mon 07:22:05 PM EST Nov 20 pupknight{B}*~ . . . *peeks*

Mon 07:22:06 PM EST Nov 20 DEACON . . . I will speak later after observing more....this interests Me ....as I have dealt with the lack of ettiquette in here perhaps more than almost anybody...

Mon 07:22:13 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . settles in after reading and venting, crossing alabaster arms.*

Mon 07:22:37 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . We don't want to get too personal, Deacon, but we do welcome your thoughts and observations..~s~

Mon 07:22:51 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . ~smiles to pupknight in welcome~

Mon 07:22:58 PM EST Nov 20 ~chrissa~ {CR} . . . *tilts head* what do you mean, heather? the Dominant not correcting the poor behavior?

What if it's the Dominant with bad behavior? would we go to a monitor in that case? as submissives, sometimes it feels difficult to call attention to poor behaviours - not that it's enjoyable... but how does a submissive go about addressing that?

Mon 07:24:04 PM EST Nov 20 DEACON . . . Thank you...but it is all personal isnt it....as we have to speak of our own instances....to really be valid

Mon 07:24:10 PM EST Nov 20 pupknight{B}*~ . . . *reads back on topic, sending greets all around

Mon 07:24:54 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . You can address what you see as poor behavior, pixie.. no matter who it is, as long as it doesn't degenerate into underhanded comments and flame wars. If you feel simply offering your thoughts won't do, you can copy and past information to email and write into admin@beautyscastle.com at any time.

Mon 07:25:30 PM EST Nov 20 ~chrissa~ {CR} . . . *nods* thanks heather

*sits back to listen to others*

Mon 07:25:58 PM EST Nov 20 ella . . . *lashes hood over my eyes with the feel of your fingers in my hair... simmering happily and with a slight chew of lip...*

i think what you've taught me most recently in terms of etiquette is important, Alexandra...

i know the value of politeness and harmony, and i know the damage of unnecessary commentary. There are times, as a submissive, and just as a human being, that a natural urge to say something or do something arises. But when you're owned- things are different. My submission to you comes into play even when regarding my own personal feelings about specific people or things.

For me personally, your expectations of me override any instinct of mine to act on how i feel. Is that a sort of etiquette too? Or just D/s in all its glory?

Mon 07:26:11 PM EST Nov 20 DEACON . . . no underhanded comments and no flaming.....hmmmmmm

Mon 07:26:11 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . Right, but there is a way to have a discussion that doesn't become a litany of veiled references to specific people. That's what we want to avoid, Deacon. ~ws~ We have all seen that happen, and as we all know, it solves nothing..

If we can just have a great discussion about what we should and shouldn't be trying to emulate, I think we could get somewhere...~ss~

Mon 07:27:08 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . makes room for the sweet knight when he is finished reading.*

Mon 07:27:24 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . Goodness, my fingers simply refuse to add t'e to paste. ~sl~

Again, Deacon - if you feel anything is overboard or not being adequately handled by monitor staff - we do encourage everything being transcribed word for word to email and sent to admin@beautyscastle.com.. ~ws~

Mon 07:27:50 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . so is the end goal to have harmony and an attitude of "let's all get along"?

Mon 07:28:06 PM EST Nov 20 DEACON . . . HMMMM that would be great...but well...

Mon 07:28:34 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . no but well....~soft laugh~ it's the "buts"..that stop us from moving forward....~crooked smile~

Mon 07:28:48 PM EST Nov 20 ~chrissa~ {CR} . . . *curiously listening*

Mon 07:29:29 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . That's very beautiful, jenica....but people truly are people.

Mon 07:29:37 PM EST Nov 20 china{LT} . . . listening quietly

Mon 07:29:41 PM EST Nov 20 pupknight{B}*~ . . . *smiles and settles beside tia appreciatively

Mon 07:30:20 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . It'd be great if we could, jenica..but as humans..we are always going to clash.. and it's how we handle those difficult times..that set us apart..

We can give honest and stark opinion and still do it without veiled insults and jabs...right?

And, we have staff to speak to. If the staff is the problem, we have admin...

there is always a chain up..*ss*..

Everyone should feel able to speak their mind... as long as you aren't flaming.. again.. you're welcome to give your stark and honest opinion... call out anyone you think has overstepped the rules or protocols...

Mon 07:30:23 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . and are the rules different from the point of view of a submissive's end goal of being respectful versus the Dominant's responsibility of not judging or putting people "in their place" all within the boundaries of their Cap Name?

Mon 07:30:43 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . ~smiles, hearing you, looks down and gives a captured lock and affectionate tug~

Yes, that is how it works between us, and the nature of our dynamic. ~nods~ It's based very much on our personal outlooks, of people and relationships in general, and D/s in particular.

Within that, it's natural for you to feel as you do, and continuously consider my perspective in everything you do. At the base of it, what you might normally have put "out there", you now give to me.

So, it's "our D/s" but at the same time, it incorporates a lot of what seems to be the general perspective on much of D/s protocol. I think it shows there such protocols usually start from the practical.

Mon 07:31:02 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . *smiles at him a severe scarlet and twines his arm turning her gaze to the ladies*

Mon 07:31:33 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . yes but in the past it feels like S/some get away with the flaming and O/others are judged for that behavior...

Mon 07:31:38 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . I'm not sure I understand what you're asking, jen?

Are you asking if submissive's are as free to call people out as dominants?

Mon 07:31:47 PM EST Nov 20 DEACON . . . see its hard to speak about things...when it was the ones in charge along with others...who did these underhanded comments and flaming.......that I went through...after getting here.....shrugs...it basically over....now...but I had to scratch and dig to getr to the point where I am today....

Mon 07:33:27 PM EST Nov 20 china{LT} . . . i think that W/we can all learn from each O/other, however sometimes it seems as if certain P/people are singled out and sometimes those comments seem to be more antagonistic and confrontational vs an opportunity to learn and grow from Each O/other

Mon 07:34:09 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . soulsong, what I'm hearing is that W/we should all feel we have the right to speak out and defend as long as the respect is given....

but yes, you make a point that as humans...we clash...we disagree...we JUDGE...so what is the best approach when the clash occurs? write to Admin? get a Monitor?

especially for the unclaimed ones...

Mon 07:35:34 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . I think we need to keep in mind that a lot of the D/s protocols that are common, are there because this lifestyle tends to attract very strong personalities, and so having those protocols gives us all a chance to have a common way of doing certain things that could get dicey with those strong personalities.

Mon 07:36:04 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . Don't worry about how other people act. How you carry yourself, how you deal with uncomfortable situations is what matters. I can't stress enough that we tell everyone if you feel something isn't write - copy/paste to admin. It rarely happens. Especially if you feel you have been attacked or targeted.

Nothing stops you from speaking your mind. If you have something to say, say it - but do it in a way that you feel proud of. Follow the protocols and rules of the room so that no one can turn anything back on you and take from the subject of what's being addressed.

Mon 07:37:45 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . If you have clashed with someone and spoken your mind and you feel it cannot be resolved between you, call for a monitor and let us handle it.

If the problem is with a monitor, you can ask for a different monitor. If none are available, again - Admin. It's the highest channel you can go to.

Mon 07:37:59 PM EST Nov 20 creeper . . . *slinking in...listening*

Mon 07:38:05 PM EST Nov 20 ~chrissa~ {CR} . . . when definitions of what is courteous don't align... how is that handled?

as a submissive, i know we are expected to provide service and benefit the room.. but if there is a Dominant we don't respect, are we supposed to still offer?

Mon 07:38:28 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . i think from personal experience and being attacked in the past, i should have written to Admin...i went to a Monitor but i shouldn't have stopped there...that's my best advice to A/all

Mon 07:38:55 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . As soulsong just said, Deacon, if there is a problem with a monitor, your next step in the chain of command is Admin... just make sure you have transcripts to back up whatever you are writing in about. ~s~

Mon 07:39:14 PM EST Nov 20 ella . . . *goosebumps and warmth starting at my skin with that tug.. curling my smile and nodding my honest understanding..*

i think that says it perfectly... "What you might normally have put 'out there', you now give to me."

I'm lucky that it's a shared perspective. Something i can be brought to understand and feel the value of, rather than what i see in some others- which is simply going along because they've been told to. i think that's a whole other topic, though...

*hearing the flow of discussion..*

i think it's important to have the strength and control as an individual to be able to look at a situation and identify whether or not an instinctive approach to 'conflict' will actually make a positive difference. i don't know which historical mind coined the term, but someone said something along the lines of.. "is what you want to say true? Is it beneficial? Is it necessary?" - if the answer to all of them is yes, then it should be said.

Mon 07:39:35 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . Thank you, soulsong. It went too far back for me to do that, but luckily, there were two who did. I felt personally attacked this eve. I hold my own....but with my non-capital letter, I felt I didn't count. DM said I was treated unfairly.

Mon 07:40:05 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . I would also say, jen - if you're having a long running issue with the same person - go to admin - and be prepared with every possible transcript of occurrences you can. Admin only works if there is proof.

Also, if you are not clashing with someone, but you observe continual poor behavior in someone, whether it is chatter or staff - save the transcripts and write to admin.

That should be if you cannot resolve the issue on your own or if it's a general issue that keeps being brought up and nothing seems to be done to solve it.

Mon 07:41:18 PM EST Nov 20 china{LT} . . . i think if it reaches a point where interactions result in reactions that are inappropriate then avoid interactions with that P/person eventually T/they will figure out T/they are being avoided and perhaps that is the time that changes can occur.

Mon 07:41:20 PM EST Nov 20 Crimson~Rogue . . . chrissa,

No you don’t. just because you are a submissive does not require to serve anyone....

That’s akin to sauna theatre since I am Dominant I should dominate a submissive because they need it...

Mon 07:42:22 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . Please give us a chance to address each person's questions... it might be a few minutes between posts, because we have to read them all properly before responding. ~s~

Mon 07:42:26 PM EST Nov 20 Crimson~Rogue . . . That is akin to saying....

Mon 07:42:43 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . DM also said since i am not colllared, i have no one to back me.

Mon 07:42:55 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . *listens to soulsong and thinks about that and wonders how it might have ended differently*

so when you write to Admin, how is that resolved? what's the possible outcome?

Mon 07:43:09 PM EST Nov 20 ~chrissa~ {CR} . . . *grins to Him, happy He could make it for a little bit... a little chuckle as He must be on the ipad* yes, my Lord... and if there are issues, i will send them to You. *eyes twinkle*

Mon 07:43:30 PM EST Nov 20 DEACON . . . I think one thing couds be done inbhere....and that is let those in charge of the dungeon lead by example.....and do not judge when you dont have any information...on the flaming....I am saying this from personal experience...and sometimes may be we like to hear something from the people in charge of here...like monitors...and even the DM...other than write to administration...and yes its the proper way...but sometimes maybe those in charge could explain themselves or talk in here about the things...rather than the all encompassing passing it on to administration...sometimes I do feel a bit like...its do as i say in here...not do as I do.....

Mon 07:43:38 PM EST Nov 20 Crimson~Rogue . . . That ‘s not true iustitia, any Dominant can defend you if required...

Mon 07:44:33 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . Remember also, everyone, that much of the harmony and peace amongst us that we seek needs to come from us, too... each of us personally.

There are rules and protocols, certainly, and as said before, when in doubt, fall back on protocol.

But for meaningfulness to anything we do, sincerity, honour, self-respect and integrity all come into play.

It's not just about rules. It's also about being decent people.

Mon 07:44:38 PM EST Nov 20 DM . . . Actually, the DM takes responsibility for uncollared

Mon 07:44:43 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . You do have people to help you, iustitia.. I am a monitor, as is Alexandra, as is Dark Traveler, Cornelli, and Darkson...

Mon 07:45:21 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . I think we're pretty accessible, Deacon..

Mon 07:46:48 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . The DM definitely stuck up for me, for which i am truly grateful. I couldn't thank Him enough.

Mon 07:47:34 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . As for how the rules of the Castle work..~smiles to Deacon especially~ I don't have a better answer for you.. the monitors step in if needed...but we prefer people work their issues out between themselves..without name calling... we should be the final call.... and Admin is for when you feel we aren't doing our job... so.. if you felt the monitors aren't performing up to standard ..admin ~is~ the place to look to...

Mon 07:47:55 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . i told Miss Alexandra as soon as i got here.

Mon 07:48:13 PM EST Nov 20 ella . . . Do submissives really feel like in instances of conflict, they need a Dominant to back them? That seems to me like a personality thing rather than a way of protocol..

If you have a point to make, and it is valid, why do you need an echo of it? Or is it just that- generally- submissives feel stronger with the backing of a Dominant?

Mon 07:49:18 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . where does name calling fit into the protocol?

Mon 07:49:51 PM EST Nov 20 DEACON . . . you and others were not open to Me back when everyone was accusing Me of being Nomade....no mnatter what I said or did...everybody slaughtered Me over the mata thing...when absolutly no one knew the wholen story...and NOT ONE ever even bothered to ask..now this was all from before more when I first got here..and let what others say hurt Me deeply...I no longer do that....and have found happiness with fairest one.....anyway...I have said what I wanted......thank you for listening

Mon 07:50:13 PM EST Nov 20 pupknight{B}*~ . . . i think i'm rather infamous for fighting through an issue... *blusehs*

Mon 07:50:37 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . jenica..once an issue goes to admin, they make the final call on everything......the monitors are informed, the interested parties spoken with..etc..... if changes need to be made, we make them..

and remember we do have talk bans. If you are a citizen and feel you are at the end of your rope with someone ...you Can request a talk ban..which works both ways....they don't talk to or about you..and vice versa..

Mon 07:50:43 PM EST Nov 20 Me*MySelf&irene . . . Hear that irene,read and learn.

Mon 07:51:27 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . I have no problem speaking up for myself.. I don't require a dominant of any sort to hide behind...

Mon 07:51:29 PM EST Nov 20 ~chrissa~ {CR} . . . ella, in my perspective... it seems to be perception... a submissive having conflict with a Dominant is seen as being disrespectful or "unsubmissive" - at least how i've felt... it's not necessarily stated.

so by having an "equal" (even though we are all equal) to back us and be an agent of discussion... it feels less volatile... and like the opinion will be taken seriously.

Mon 07:52:03 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . ella, i most assuredly did not feel I needed a Dominant to defend me. i'm more than capable of doing that myself. i simply thought it would be nice to intervene before it go more than extremely vicious.

Mon 07:52:09 PM EST Nov 20 pupknight{B}*~ . . . that i can understand chrissa

Mon 07:52:53 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . That would go under flaming, jenica.

Mon 07:53:52 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . the thing is, i don't need anyone to defend me but when i have spoken up, i feel like O/others judge that confrontation as not submissive and i know it's all in the delivery...

Mon 07:54:23 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . thank You, Alexandra...i will be sure to note name calling as such...*smiles*

Mon 07:54:34 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . Deacon, if you needed help with an issue, the proper channel to follow was to speak with a monitor, and if the monitor was an issue, then write to Admin, with transcripts of the issue.

That was what needed to be done in the situation you are speaking of.

Mon 07:55:35 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . Let's remember that while we're in a BDSM venue. We are still men and women. No one is above anyone else, not by title and not by cap or no cap...

If you're going to speak - speak. Just make sure that what comes out of your mouth are words you feel good about. Speak boldly, speak the truth, but always do it with integrity. I think that's what might have been lacking somewhat...

We don't have to lower ourselves to pettiness to make a point.. and in fact, opinions and thoughts go over far better when you speak like a level-headed adult...

As for monitors, we are people, too. We screw up, we make mistakes, we are not all knowing or anymore than any of you... we are simply here in unpaid, volunteer positions...trying to help...

if you feel we aren't.. or feel any of us have overstepped our role.. or we aren't fulfilling our role....you guessed it - seek out admin with clear reasons why..and transcripts...

Mon 07:56:30 PM EST Nov 20 Dark Traveler`s lady tiffany . . . ~slipping in better late than never~

Mon 07:56:37 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . ~takes a breather, having been typing for a solid hour, tries to catch up~

Mon 07:56:52 PM EST Nov 20 ~chrissa~ {CR} . . . i think what can really be beneficial... because we all have egos and can get defensive, right?? *grinning* at least i can...

taking the conflict to private... can diffuse a lot... public adds the embarrassment factor... so, asking to discuss in red and talk through the issues... is a big help.

Mon 07:58:53 PM EST Nov 20 DEACON . . . Anyway...thanks for listening...most of it all in the past now....
Steps out.....be well everyO/one

Mon 07:59:08 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . ~catches up~

Mon 07:59:24 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . jenica.. I've seen many question what is not submissive.

I would think everyone here by now, knows I am about as submissive as it gets..

I have no issue speaking up... I will step in and defend if I feel someone needs it.. I spoke up for previous dominants..many times.. for friends..for new people..

it's not "unsubmissive"..to have a voice...

It's all in the delivery...

Firm, but within the rules, and without pettiness.

Though, I will say I have fallen victim to the nastier side of things a very few times in the last 19 years. Just don't let it be -who- you are...as a whole..

Mon 07:59:29 PM EST Nov 20 ella . . . *nodding.. smiling softly to heather before hearing chrissa..*

i understand that, and i've heard the same opinion a few times.. i just think of there is an expression of 'inequality' then i would be putting that down to the Dominant, not me. As in- if a Dominant is clearly trying to make it seem like your opinion isn't equal to theirs- that's a failure in them. It's also not Dominant behaviour, if you ask me.

Mon 07:59:56 PM EST Nov 20 ella . . . Damnit *catching up too*

Mon 08:00:32 PM EST Nov 20 ~chrissa~ {CR} . . . totally agree with you, ella... *nods*

Mon 08:01:00 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . welcome, tiffy! ~ws~

Mon 08:01:19 PM EST Nov 20 pupknight{B}*~ . . . as do i

Mon 08:01:34 PM EST Nov 20 Crimson~Rogue . . . Anyone, Dom or submissive who cannot behave as adult.... does not deserve to be treated with respect....

Mon 08:01:44 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . yes soulsong, you really do model the proper way to deal with things and it's all about the delivery and standing firm with facts not emotion...*s*

Mon 08:01:49 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . Dominants who try to belittle a submissive's opinion simply because she/he identifies as submissive is someone I pretty quickly write off, personally...

Mon 08:02:14 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . In all fairness, I did try to handle it with maturity and beauty.

Mon 08:02:14 PM EST Nov 20 ella . . . iustitia.. *just seeing your post*

That's totally different, and actually admirable. Damage control is a skill i think we all need to practice.

Mon 08:02:16 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . In any case, the links posts at the beginning of the discussion will always be there, and will be accessible in posterity from the Archives (linked at the top of each Castle page).

Everything knowable about BDSM protocol and Dungeon general etiquette can be found in one form or another in those links, including the Castle's own Customs and Protocols links.

So I think saving those links for personal reference would be a good idea to refresh ourselves on the concepts from time to time as needed.

But nothing is a substitute for common sense, and simply being a decent human being, at the end of the day. ~smiles~

Mon 08:02:25 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . that's actually another good take away from tonight

deal with facts
review with the Monitors
take it to Admin if still troubled

Mon 08:03:05 PM EST Nov 20 ~chrissa~ {CR} . . . oh, i like that summation, jenica

Mon 08:03:07 PM EST Nov 20 Dark Traveler`s lady tiffany . . . thank you heather... *s*

Mon 08:04:01 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . Thank you, sweet ella. And I completely agree.I cannot tolerate bullies.

Mon 08:04:14 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . ~makes a note to bring some of the other protocol stuff into future TO's since this one got a little specific~~

Mon 08:04:33 PM EST Nov 20 ella . . . *smiling at the jeni-doll's summation*

Sometimes it's easier to have a set of hard rules like that to turn to- it contains the potential things getting out of hand in the moment.

Mon 08:05:23 PM EST Nov 20 Dark Traveler`s lady tiffany . . . that name changing thing here... can be a stumbling block for many.. for many reasons.... i wonder if when that sort of thing happens... can a person request admin check IP addresses and make a public statement of at least IP addresses not matching... i think that would be very frustrating to try and prove yourself... and yet equally frustrating for someone who has been abused by someone who thinks that might be the person with just a new name...

Mon 08:05:25 PM EST Nov 20 DEACON . . . Peeks back for an instant...it is a lot harder to take when its the people in charge of the dungeon doing the belittling......ok now I really am out..

Mon 08:05:33 PM EST Nov 20 ~*Glorys darkest of sins . . . ~drifts through the shadows to listen~

Mon 08:06:17 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . Very good summation, jenica. ~grins~

Mon 08:06:38 PM EST Nov 20 ~Zilla . . . ~stepping in to listen~

Mon 08:07:27 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . Again, Deacon and tiffy, that's something admin would need to handle. Monitors have nothing to do with IP addresses or who is who. *ss* You could send your idea to admin, tiffy, and see what comes of it..

Mon 08:07:37 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . welcome, Zilla...

Mon 08:07:44 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . well thanks....*listens more, thinking this has helped so much*

Mon 08:07:46 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . leans back and gently caresses the knight's fragile bones in his wrist as she listens*

Mon 08:07:50 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . and ms. sins..*ws*

Mon 08:07:58 PM EST Nov 20 DEACON . . . Damn everytime I get out...they pull me back in...I asked for an IP check...dont know if it was ever done...

Now MY r/t lady is geeting upset as dinner is served...so out now...gone

Mon 08:08:08 PM EST Nov 20 ~chrissa~ {CR} . . . i like how heather put it earlier... when in the Dungeon, be proud of what you say and do.

do things with integrity. be honest but tactful.

Mon 08:08:26 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . *smiles, seeing Zilla*

Mon 08:08:47 PM EST Nov 20 ~*Glorys darkest of sins . . . ~smiles warm in greeting to miss soulsong not wanting to interrupt

Mon 08:09:09 PM EST Nov 20 DEACON . . . Well I askeed The DM too get them to check My IP....out to dinner

Mon 08:10:08 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . chrissa, that's so true and putting aside the emotion that O/one is trying to pull out of the person can really be controlled

like I always say, the only thing I can control is "me"...and my reaction to something or S/someone

Mon 08:10:17 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . Okay, everyone, thank you for coming in! Your hostesses are off duty now - BUT - the room is open ALL night and you are more than welcome to stay as long as you like and continue chatting.....

Thank you for coming in...~ss~

Mon 08:10:33 PM EST Nov 20 Dark Traveler`s lady tiffany . . . ~trying to read back while sitting here~

Mon 08:10:48 PM EST Nov 20 ella . . . *musing...*

i think i'm pretty god at controlling my impulses when it comes to conflict. But even when you are REALLY good at it, it's not always easy or even possible.

Alexandra being my Dominant has had a huge effect on me in that regard. There are now more things to consider than just what i might be feeling or what i might be wanting to get out.

am i right to say that perhaps even unclaimed submissives could confide in a Dominant they respect and know to be true, to advise them in those instances?

Mon 08:10:50 PM EST Nov 20 ~Zilla . . . Interesting thoughts.. *nodding as I listen*

Mon 08:10:51 PM EST Nov 20 ~soulsong~ . . . Again Deacon, monitors don't handle IP checks. If you want something done, take the request directly to admin. *ws*

Mon 08:10:54 PM EST Nov 20 ~chrissa~ {CR} . . . yes, i agree jenica. and way back where everything was posted... it said to step away if emotions are getting out of control. which i think is very wise.

Mon 08:11:39 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . chrissa, when we step away, T/they lose the power...

Mon 08:12:07 PM EST Nov 20 ~chrissa~ {CR} . . . oh...... i like that jenica!!! *makes a note* you have the best little sayings...

Mon 08:12:47 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . Thank you for coming, everyone! ~smiles~ It was a great discussion.

Remember to check the Archives linked at the top of each page if you want to read the transcript and look further into the articles linked.

In the meantime, feel free to stay and chat here as long as you wish for the evening. TO rules apply to all chat within this room. ~s~

Mon 08:13:05 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . *winks at her and needs to take my own advice*

Mon 08:13:11 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . *laughs softly* indeed jenica does....I remember her way back when.

Mon 08:13:19 PM EST Nov 20 ella . . . *smiles appreciatively to heather..
shifting by the Capitalised Hostess*

Mon 08:13:31 PM EST Nov 20 ~Zilla . . . *migrating back to the cooler and darker confines of the Dungeon*

Mon 08:13:48 PM EST Nov 20 ~chrissa~ {CR} . . . thank you so much for compiling everything and hosting for us, heather and Alexandra *smiles warmly*

Mon 08:14:00 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . Many thanks, Miss Alexandra and soulsong for the enlightenment.

Mon 08:14:06 PM EST Nov 20 Alexandra . . . ~nods to ella~ Definitely. If there is a dominant you trust, or even another submissive, it is highly recommended that you speak with them on any issues.

Mon 08:14:36 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . hello iustitia!! so nice to see you back! *smiles at you*

Mon 08:14:46 PM EST Nov 20 DEACON . . . Thank you for the forum...

Mon 08:15:14 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . even us uncollared submmissives, have favorites to vent with...that's so important!

Mon 08:15:18 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . jenica....*smiles affectionately and reaches out to kiss both of her lovely cheeks*

Mon 08:15:35 PM EST Nov 20 pupknight{B}*~ . . . perspecitve and wisdom from One You repsective are always good things when troubled

Mon 08:16:10 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . *hands reach for iustitia's...eyes locking warmly*

I do hope you will be here more often?

Mon 08:17:55 PM EST Nov 20 Dark Traveler`s lady tiffany . . . i think ella... that you should ask advise of your dominant... and if she is ok with you asking of others.... next would be those who you respect....

i think sometimes... it is best as an owned submissive... to ignore conflict... and instead observe... and speak to your dominant and ask how they would want you to handle that type of situation.

Mon 08:18:31 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . jenica, love...i'm going to try to make it a priority...*holds her hands within icy confines*

Mon 08:20:13 PM EST Nov 20 iustitia . . . heads back to the dungeon leaving the redolence of lavender in her wake*

Mon 08:20:56 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . *kisses her hands softly*

good I look forward to it!

Mon 08:21:22 PM EST Nov 20 pupknight{B}*~ . . . *follows*

Mon 08:21:26 PM EST Nov 20 jenica . . . *returns to the D too*

Mon 08:23:48 PM EST Nov 20 ella . . . i completely agree with you, lady tiffany. i meant that an unclaimed submissive might turn to a known, trusted Dominant. i don't see any reason why a submissive would turn to another if they have a Dominant they're owned by One.

i'm a total observer now- and it actually feels a hundred times better to just be able to confide in Alexandra, rather than go rogue with my opinions and deal with the frustration of the aftermath.

*leaves a twinkle of affection for my friends before going too*

Mon 08:24:32 PM EST Nov 20 ella . . . *ughs at the grammar and placement of words in my last post.. hopes it was understood anyway.. really gone*

Mon 08:24:39 PM EST Nov 20 Dark Traveler`s lady tiffany . . . ~smile~ be well ella..

Mon 08:24:52 PM EST Nov 20 Dark Traveler`s lady tiffany . . . ~slips out to the pub~

Mon 08:31:08 PM EST Nov 20 Odysseus . . . scrolls back

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